SG Chapter 7 and Racist Readers
First, Suburban Girl Chapter Seven is now available on this site. You know where to find it.
Second, why do I keep getting racist e-mail about this chapter? Here's a great example from steinman88@*****.com:
I mean, let's think about this for a second. I've put Becky through bestiality. I put Tina through prostitution. I put both Amy and Kaylee through incest. And other than Kaylee, every female protagonist I've ever written about has endured rape, torture, coercion, etc. None of that upsets the people who have initially responded to SG Ch.7, though. No, what bugs them is that I had Becky have sex with black men.
I have received, as of 2:56am EDT on this date, exactly 14 e-mails about SG Ch.7. Not nearly as much as I got for Family Honor, but I mean, FH was sort of a fluke (keep 'em coming, btw! I still love all the e-mails I get about my first and only short story...). Anyway, 4 of those e-mails have been anonymous submissions via SOL.net. The rest have been from people like steinman88 up there, people who have such little shame about their utterly racist hearts that they don't care if I get their e-mail address. Oh, and of those four anonymous messages? Yeah, only one didn't include any racist-leaning comments.
All of this has come completely out of left field. Hopefully this initial reaction to the latest chapter will turn out to be a minority viewpoint. I'd hate to think that most of my reader-base is made up of racist assholes, you know?
Grr. I mean (and I'm sorry for going off on a rant here!) I could honestly understand if it was the opposite; if it were black people writing me angry e-mails about this chapter. Think about it: I've never included black people in any of my stories before and then, when I finally did, I had to make them gang-bangers. I could understand getting e-mails criticising me for employing that ugly stereotype, or for the dialogue I wrote for them (did anyone notice that only Maurice speaks proper English in the chapter?). But to get so many e-mails right off the bat from readers pissed off primarily because I had Becky get involved with black people... ugh. It makes me feel sick.
I'll just never understand racism, I guess. It's a totally foreign notion to me. To not like a person and, indeed, hate a person just because of the color of their skin... I'll never get that. I mean, I've known a lot of racists in real life. I dated one in high school for a very long time. I've heard all the so-called "explanations" for why racism is "acceptable" or "logical" or "scientific". But for me it's all bullshit. Like, you might as well try to convince me the Earth is flat. I can accept that you think it is and I can accept that other people share your belief. But I will never agree with such a statement, now will I ever understand why you'd choose to be so ignorant.
Second, why do I keep getting racist e-mail about this chapter? Here's a great example from steinman88@*****.com:
you [sic] problem is that you [sic] story went from good positive natural and normal sex and a little slutty too to stereotypical 'the white man is small and blacks are huge' shit... I thought better of you after eveything [sic] you wrote before. Hope you get back to good stuff and leave the blacks out... this is turning into another 'white girl becomes black gang's slut' story'... I give you one more chapter then I quite [sic].Now here's the thing. When I posted this chapter I admitted that I didn't think it was my best work. But I was thinking that the negative reaction I would get for it would be comments like, "You took too long getting to the action" or "This chapter was really slow compared to the others". You know, stuff like that. I never, ever expected that so many of my readers would be upset about interracial sex!
I mean, let's think about this for a second. I've put Becky through bestiality. I put Tina through prostitution. I put both Amy and Kaylee through incest. And other than Kaylee, every female protagonist I've ever written about has endured rape, torture, coercion, etc. None of that upsets the people who have initially responded to SG Ch.7, though. No, what bugs them is that I had Becky have sex with black men.
I have received, as of 2:56am EDT on this date, exactly 14 e-mails about SG Ch.7. Not nearly as much as I got for Family Honor, but I mean, FH was sort of a fluke (keep 'em coming, btw! I still love all the e-mails I get about my first and only short story...). Anyway, 4 of those e-mails have been anonymous submissions via SOL.net. The rest have been from people like steinman88 up there, people who have such little shame about their utterly racist hearts that they don't care if I get their e-mail address. Oh, and of those four anonymous messages? Yeah, only one didn't include any racist-leaning comments.
All of this has come completely out of left field. Hopefully this initial reaction to the latest chapter will turn out to be a minority viewpoint. I'd hate to think that most of my reader-base is made up of racist assholes, you know?
Grr. I mean (and I'm sorry for going off on a rant here!) I could honestly understand if it was the opposite; if it were black people writing me angry e-mails about this chapter. Think about it: I've never included black people in any of my stories before and then, when I finally did, I had to make them gang-bangers. I could understand getting e-mails criticising me for employing that ugly stereotype, or for the dialogue I wrote for them (did anyone notice that only Maurice speaks proper English in the chapter?). But to get so many e-mails right off the bat from readers pissed off primarily because I had Becky get involved with black people... ugh. It makes me feel sick.
I'll just never understand racism, I guess. It's a totally foreign notion to me. To not like a person and, indeed, hate a person just because of the color of their skin... I'll never get that. I mean, I've known a lot of racists in real life. I dated one in high school for a very long time. I've heard all the so-called "explanations" for why racism is "acceptable" or "logical" or "scientific". But for me it's all bullshit. Like, you might as well try to convince me the Earth is flat. I can accept that you think it is and I can accept that other people share your belief. But I will never agree with such a statement, now will I ever understand why you'd choose to be so ignorant.
Labels: fan mail, Suburban Girl
posted by Shannon at 2:32 AM
22 Comments:
I completely agree. I would understand people being angry that you included homosexuals, because they choose to be gay and are hated based on behavior, not something unchangeable like skin color.
Blacks can't change that they are black and it doesn't make them any different beyond appearance.
I'm surprised so many racists still exist almost three generations after blacks began to fully receive their rights.
Holy. Fucking. Shit.
I really, really hope the comment above is a joke or is supposed to be sarcastic. Because if my entire audience is made up of racists and homophobes I swear to God I'll take this site down tomorrow and never post anything ever again.
btw, Anonymous homophobe? At least most of the racists had the courage to leave their real e-mail address. Posting as anonymous while spewing such filth takes all the resolve of a gnat. And that's what you are. A fucking incect. GOD.
Please, please tell me some of my readers aren't racist/homophobic assholes... please!!!! :(
Sounds like they're mostly trolls, mostly doing it to rile you up.
If you want to shut them up, start posting stories with CBT. Be very descriptive and specifc, and 'forget' to label it CBT. ;)
cheers,
bored anon
I'm not sure I'm a 'reader' per se as I haven't actually read anything storywise as yet but the (presumably unintentional) irony of that first comment was hilarious. Apparently even violent and depraved pornographic writing isn't safe from morons.
I was, vaguely, thinking of commenting. I enjoy your stories even if the pleasure is somewhat guilty (as a guy, I shouldn't really get off on teenage girls being humiliated and dominated - and I can't imagine ever wanting to be part of that scene - honest) but I had a few doubts about Ch 7, basically on the lines you present yourself: black guys involved in gangs, dope, gang-bangs, incredibly BIG!!! And not talking 'right'. But what do I know? Maybe that's how they all are in Cleveland! But keep the story going. BTW you may have to work harder on why dad and especially brothers don't suspect anything. Surely she stank when coming in from the 'inter-racial encounter'.
I actually had the opposite reaction as I guess most of your readers. I was a little disappointed that they had to be gang members and drug dealers. Of course I will still be reading, shit it was better written than 99% of the stuff on the net even if you weren't happy with it.
AS far as the racists and the homophobe up there... ignore them. If they get offended when you write, then they deserve to be wrong.
I'm sitting here and this is the best way for me to lay out my thoughts:
1. Most people who enjoy you story, enjoy it and leave it at that... Some will undoubtedly give their complements, but its the people who don't agree with you, who will speak out the loudest.
2. Some people take erotic fiction a little to seriously. (Its a story people, hate to say it, but Becky is a figment of Shannon's imagination)
3. Racists and Homophobes will always exist... and as is usually the case, the louder they deny/hate something, the truer it is that their in denial about something even more major.
4. And finally, people are entitled to their opinions, and its protected under the 1st amendment, of the Constitution. Are some people idiots, for sharing their racists ignorant thoughts? Sure, but whats best to do to these people, is to either ignore them, as in cases like this, or to calmly explain with facts, why their beliefs are hateful and wrong, and they are in turn giant douche bags.
Howly
I wish I could gather up as much anger as you Shannon, but I can't help but pity people who are so ignorant that they can't do anything but complain about something instead of doing something to help improve whatever it is they're crying about. My philosophy is that if there's something wrong or somebody screwed something up, that it's not right to blame them if you don't offer them anyway to improve what they've done. Don't complain about something but then not do anything about it just because you don't like it, if you don't like it then do something to make it better. Offer suggestions or new proposals, don't sit and bitch and moan like a bloated whale on a beach, get up and do something about it! Even just sitting down and discussing about why somebody did it the way they did would help. Share you thoughts and feelings, but when you do, make sure you share them in a way that will help you get what you want, not by pissing off whomever it is you're talking to, but by encouraging them to do something that you would like instead. If you don't like something, then you go out and fix it because nobody else will, and that's a fact!
Shannon,
I used to post as Fenris before and I've followed your stories for a couple of years now. and I have enjoyed them the whole time. I feel that the ones that complained about your racists deal was more talking about the stereo type that black men have big dicks. and white men do not. I still think it's a silly argument in my honest opinion.
I will tell you that your stories have never failed to excite me due to the way you write them, sometimes it might take longer but it does eventually. i may be a freak but i enjoy what you write and hope you'll keep writing. btw I am not a racist or a homophobe. so please don't go away :)
I'd love to see a story where you have a guy get it on with a guy, but i think you've said it's not your cup of tea :) it doesn't have to be the center of the story but maybe something while a character is in a group sceene a guy get done by another guy (yes I'll admit I'm bi!)
keep working at it you will have me as a reader as long as i have access to the internet.
Shannon, I've been reading your stuff since you started posting it online and it's always been clear that you're writing for yourself - not for anyone else. We're all glad you share, but you keep doing what you're doing.
My advice, make your next few stories interracial too. It'll weed out the weirdos and racists who can't take it and then let you get back to writing about whatever enters your groovy, pervy mind. Fuck those people - they hate themselves, feel shame at their most normal thoughts and urges and then spew that hate out into the world. Ignore them.
I agree with the person above. Keep the interracial stuff coming! At least if that's what you feel like.
It never occurred to me that you didn't have black people in your stories before. I consider myself open-minded and not racist, but it does seem somewhat odd.
Ah well, it seems strange to me that out of the weird, fucked up, perverted shit out there, you get the most complaints about an interracial story. I say keep up it coming, the more kinks in the stories, the better and more unpredictable they seem.
---A fan
It's not the fact that interracial sex is involved, it's the way in which it was appraoached. There are 100s of interracial stories on the internet all of which end up the same way, and I think the comment was about not wanting you to let your (excellent) writing go the same way.
Wow. People give scientific explanations for racism? As a scientist, that both amazes and offends me.
BTW, loving the story, Shannon.
These racist assholes are scum of the earth.
Shadow,
re: Shadow's comment.
I disagree. Racist assholes are the racist assholes of the earth. Republicans are the scum of the earth.
Black people are awesome.
Except when they break into my car to steal my cassette player and leave bits of fried chicken all over the place.
That's a lot less awesome.
~Silly,
Hi Shannon,
I haven't read the story yet so am just commenting on racism generally.
I think the intensity of racist feelings in this country is generational -- the older a person is the stronger those feelings may be. I think your own perspective, while not absent, is unusual for people in their 80s.
Racism occurs on two levels -- a passive and an aggressive. Most whites in this country are passively racist and only a few (thank goodness) are aggressive. I think it's easier for an aggressive racist to become passive than for a passive racist to become absolutely color blind.
An interesting aspect of pornography is just how long in its history the existence of black people has been admitted. Black characters appear currently more often in fiction and movies in porn than in mainstream. That their roles in porn are often stereotypes is sad, but how often in mainstream representations to blacks and whites touch each other, much less kiss or do more?
I agree with a previous comment that it's always nice to see more gay and bi activity in fiction -- porn or mainstream.
Thanks!
Woodsbunny
Hi
I came across your discussion - sorry to drag it up again but......
I can see where the complaint comes from if that is what they were really complaining about. It isn't about race, it is about stereotyping. He is suggesting that you are portraying you charaters in a cliche manner where you are concentrating on the size of the guy's cock above anything else.
Maybe he is saying that you could consider other elements of sex that your character could excel in other than being just an extra large cock.
Personally I find it slightly worrying that so many people accept the stereotyping of black men as rough, rude, gangster rapists with huge cocks and that all white women become complete puppets in their hands. There are very few other characters for fictinal black men to play.
However, the black rapist white whore fantasy is an age old fantasy that has been around since the times of slavery and were used to perpetuate the subjegation of black people. Maybe we haven't moved on as much as we think.
Of course I haven't read the chapter in question - but my comments refer more to modern erotica and online rp in general. Certainly don't give up the writing, but do try to understand why some people react as they do - perhaps they will make a good character themselves.
Mark
Hey Mark - read the chapter. It's good stuff.
Hmmm... sounds like I'm going to have an interesting read once I get to that chapter... I ain't racist I married a black woman, she 'hates' the typical stories of mixed couples always white chick/black male.. (she still reads them though).. but I at times feel depressed when I see my oldest (step) son with a bigger dick then me... but hey as they say, it ain't the size that matters.. it's how it's used... but I'm digressing...
Shannon.. read Ch 1, reads great, onto the next... BTW like FH too.
Hmmm... sounds like I'm going to have an interesting read once I get to that chapter... I ain't racist I married a black woman, she 'hates' the typical stories of mixed couples always white chick/black male.. (she still reads them though).. but I at times feel depressed when I see my oldest (step) son with a bigger dick then me... but hey as they say, it ain't the size that matters.. it's how it's used... but I'm digressing...
Shannon.. read Ch 1, reads great, onto the next... BTW like FH too.
Who's the biggot Shannon?
1st the example you used as someone racist was clearly a comment about your characters going down a stereotypical path. *yawn* As with any good writer you had the readers (atleast some) and then you wrote something they (some) didn't like then... *POOF* They wrote you to let you know about it and you THOUGHT it to be racist.
2. If you don't want comments don't ask. If you want the good gotta take the bad too. Otherwise it's merely praise you want and not critique.
3. Yes you write for yourself but the moment you post/publish/sell, those characters are no longer yours but ours. i.e. George Lucas
4. People like certain types of porn/fiction. Always have always will. Some like their porn Vanilla and some like Rocky Road.
5. Sunshine if you REALLY feel that way shut'er down and never post again. Because the reality is the VAST VAST majority of people reading and watching porn on the net aren't gay and they aren't Black.
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