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From: Conjugate
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:03:54 -0700
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote in message news:uu4g45aie3mj47@news.supernews.com ...
The following story is our 71st submission to the FishTank. It is a complete story of 4,196 words. In the author's own words:
"Did you know 40% of all published fiction is romance? The genre has premises and conventions that make the stories wonderful for readers who enjoy romance and a bit difficult for those who are not used to reading stories by Laura Kinsale, Mary Jo Putney and the many other stars of the genre. There is a niche within romance where lesbian romance stories reside. These stories have special features of their own. "Winter Storm" is an example of lesbian romance.
Did you ever hear the story about the woman who called a plumber to fix a broken pipe? The plumber turned out to be a hunk and ... Yep, this is the story or at least one version.
What does everyone think of a lesbian romance story? I'd also like any suggestions for improving the story or my writing, so all comments are welcome."
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
Well, as always, a nice warm piece in Katie McN's trademark style. (That is the first of the positive comments; I like Katie McN's style.)
I will make a couple of small quibbles under the heading of "suggestions for improvement;" the first is, I didn't understand this sentence:
Libby felt
something more than a scar and wondered if she'd made a mistake letting this woman into her home.
What did she feel that was "more than a scar?" Was it Rae's impressive bicep, or a contraceptive implant, or what? Maybe something like, " ...felt powerful muscles moving under the scar tissue and wondered ..." would make it clearer.
The other thing is that, when I heard the women speaking, they both seemed to be speaking in the same voice. I'm not quite sure why, since there was evidence that Libby used a different vocabulary than Rae. I'm not sure what to do about this, but perhaps if you described the voice of one woman a few times, it would help me distinguish them mentally. Something like, " 'Damn, it's cold,' said the plumber in a slightly raspy voice, somewhat muffled by the ski mask,' or something similar to describe Libby's voice. I am not really sure if that's the ticket.
I liked the description of the sex scene particularly. It moved smoothly, and left just enough to the imagination.
Thanks for sharing the story with us.
Conjugate
Winter Storm
By Katie McN
katie_mcn@earthlink.net
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:58:55 -0600
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:22:33 -0500, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
The following story is our 71st submission to the FishTank. It is a complete story of 4,196 words. In the author's own words:
What does everyone think of a lesbian romance story? I'd also like any suggestions for improving the story or my writing, so all comments are welcome."
I like romance stories, with any participants.
I liked the flow of the romance. Libby is lonely, but attracted to Rae, but even so she doesn't take the brash, direct offer of "action". Rae takes this well enough, and the rejection is handled nicely, pointing the way to a possible renewal later.
Which happens. Like a lot of things regarding love, sex plays a big part here. Desire and sex, not really love so far. But the seeds are sown for it to be more than just sex.
The sex itself is delightfully hot. Rae pleases Libby, taking control of the situation. It takes a while before it gets turned around, but we don't see all of the endless action. That doesn't matter, because the first event is one worth experiencing - a nice all out assault of pleasure, no holds barred, just to please Libby.
Maybe, somewhere in that break after their lusts are sated somewhat, Libby or Rae, or both, might think about their future together. It is nice that Rae shows interest at the end, but before that there could be just a bit more hint of Libby's desire. Maybe not Rae's, because it is from Libby's POV and she doesn't know what her new lover is thinking.
While Libby was indignant about Rae's advances, she might show it just a bit more. Thinking that Rae is too strong to fight off, if she didn't take no for an answer, would seem a natural thing to me. Once that seems unlikely, I think she might vacillate between her sensual memories of the touch and her anger over it coming without warning.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Wiseguy
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: 25 Nov 2002 21:00:47 -0800
I'm popping my Fish Tank cherry here, folks, so correct me gently if I break protocol. ;^)
Two things I love about this story: the romance, and the characters. Yes, I'm a sucker for a happy ending. Katie plays here on a theme that's been much on my mind this past year or so, the power of love to heal after a loss. Both Libby and Rae have been hurt, and they both find a kind of healing in what comes from their meeting. Yeah, I like that.
I also like the way these characters are drawn. We get a great, detailed description of Rae early on that really helps to tell us who she is as well as what she is. Libby takes longer to come out, but the contrast works well.
Okay, two suggestions. One of them is that the narrative flow seems interrupted or rearranged in places. One good example is this exchange:
things. "That's an unusual tattoo, Rae. What's it supposed to be?"
"Are you sure you want to know, Libby? You might not like the answer."
Rae said that she was born in a poor section of Boston. Most of the girls in her neighborhood joined a local gang or ended up as victims. The red symbol on her forearm was a badge of honor in the gang. A girl had to do something special before she could have a tattoo. The something special was often a crime and always had to do with violence.
"How did you get your tattoo, Rae?"
"Ha, ha, ha, you're going to be sorry you asked."
Rae told Libby that the girls in the gang liked to smoke grass, but were short of money on the day it happened. Their gang leader
If I'm reading this right, the sequence is: Libby asks Rae where she got the tattoo; Rae warns Libby she might not like the answer, then tells her; Libby asks again where Rae got the tattoo; Rae again warns her, then answers again with more detail. Seems redundant to me; I'd rather see the exchange happen only once, with Rae giving out the whole story. (Maybe she could do a "Are you sure you wanna hear this?" just before getting to the really ugly part.) I'd also rather hear the story in Rae's words than the third-person narrator's.
Second thought: a very important paragraph early on is hampered by problems with verb tenses and monotonous sentence structure. Here's the passage in question:
Libby lived eighteen miles north of Newton, Massachusetts. Her closest neighbor was two miles away and she could count all the cars that passed her house in the last week on the fingers of one hand. She and her lover of five years bought the place to get away from their hectic lives in Boston. It was going to be a weekend retreat, but six months later fate stepped in and changed their best-laid plans. Her doctor was never clear about why or what or how. She knew life support wasn't helping and told Libby it was time to pull the plug. The only time people saw her cry was when she signed the hospital release. The rest of her tears were saved for private moments in the home they'd bought together. Away from the city and people she was alone to explore the depths of her grief, looking for answers and finding none. Three years later she still didn't have a reason to leave the solitude of her country hide-a-way.
Trying not to tinker with it too much (a horrible temptation of mine if you ask artie or Dryad), I'd recommend rewording like this:
Libby lived eighteen miles north of Newton, Massachusetts. Her closest neighbor was two miles away and she could count one one hand the number of cars that had passed the house in the last week. Libby and her lover of five years had bought the place to get away from their hectic lives in Boston. The idea was to create a weekend retreat for themselves, but six months later fate stepped in and changed their best-laid plans. The doctors were never clear about why or what or how. She knew life support wasn't helping and told Libby it was time to pull the plug. The only time anyone had seen Libby cry was when she'd signed the hospital release. The rest of her tears Libby saved for private moments in the home they'd bought together. Away from the city and people, she was alone to explore the depths of her grief, looking for answers and finding none. Three years later she still didn't have a reason to leave the solitude of her country hide-a-way.
My way keeps the verb tenses clean (barring an embarrassing typo, anyway) and varies sentence structure a little where sometimes it wasn't entirely clear whether "she" was Libby or her unnamed lover.
One more thing I'd ask for is a little more weaving of narrative and dialog. Katie's style tends to be blocks of narrative mixed with blocks of dialog. I want to know what the people are doing while they talk. For instance:
The plumber saw Libby's surprised face and scowled. "Is there something wrong?"
Libby blinked twice, realizing she had been staring. "I wasn't expecting a woman. My name is Libby Kinsale. Thanks again for coming."
The plumber snorted. "I'm Rachel Putney, but most people call me Rae. Do you have a problem with a woman plumber?"
You get the idea. What they do tells us as what they are feeling and thinking in a more subtle way than straight narrative, and helps to pace the dialog.
Was that two suggestions or three? Oh, well. It's a wonderful piece and will go over very well in its final form.
-wg
http://www.asstr.org/~Wiseguy
From: john
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: 25 Nov 2002 22:40:24 -0800
I found the opening query unabashedly Victorian. (Does it not imply that same-sex lovers might not be capable of romance?) I think the story itself has the same charm and the same stiffness. I liked its delicacy. A lace doily. But for me, the setting or rather the set up was the best part of the tale. A winter storm, an isolated house. I got into it (or out of the storm) immediately. I yearned, though, for more description of the house and yard. Didn't the snow fill up the boughs of the old jack pine beside the drive and droop them to the point of breaking? Wasn't there a fireplace or a woodstove with smoke and cedar and cherry scenting the living room? Lots of romantic opportunities by-passed, I thought. And Libby. Was her lover of five years male or female? At the start, I thought it didn't matter. She seems enamoured of Rae's body. Then shocked at the pass. Appalled really. Then suddenly compliant. Then ready to commit. Not at all believable to me. Rae on the other hand is wonderfully drawn. Perhaps, she needs a better excuse, though, to want this crazy Libby so badly. Is she gorgeous? It's not that Libby dithers. Let it be her first time, then. Let Rae seduce her, snow her, storm her, let Rae's thick, earthy presence drift around her till she's trapped just like the van.
The second sentence correctly uses a perfect tense: had pulled. The third and fourth sentences need them just as badly: (had) changed, (had) got (gotten in America), had reached , had been relieved ... etc. Otherwise, this reader starts to sputter and misses the beauty of the situation. It is a lovely situation. It deserves a bit more polish.
Thank you for sharing it, Katie.
John
From: Tesseract
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: 26 Nov 2002 05:25:21 -0800
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote in message news:<uu4g45aie3mj47@news.supernews.com> ...
The following story is our 71st submission to the FishTank. It is a complete story of 4,196 words. In the author's own words:
What does everyone think of a lesbian romance story? I'd also like any suggestions for improving the story or my writing, so all comments are welcome."
**************************************** Winter Storm By Katie McN
katie_mcn@earthlink.net
I liked the story. The setting was drawn well enough to get a feel for the place and the characters were well developed. We could see Libby's hesitancy mixed with her desire.
The sex scene, and more importantly, the seduction scene, was detailed enough to almost satisfy the voyeuristic desires of this male, hetro reader.
Any quibbles are technical; overall it's a good story.
The plumber hung the heavy winter coat on a hook in the mud room. Snow pants came off next and finally the ski mask was removed. The plumber wiped snow from the top of the tool box and stomped the mud room floor to remove the accumulated slush and mud from the work boots. Libby got a surprise when the plumber turned back to face her.
I know what you are trying to do here but "the plumber" appears too many times. I don't know how to fix it. You can't use a pronoun since we don't yet know the gender. Maybe you could drop the third sentence, or combine it with the second or first.
"It's lunch time, Rae. Why don't I fix us something to eat before ... "Well, you never know. Out her in the country. No one around." Rae shrugged her shoulders and moved closer to see what Libby was doing. "No, Libby, you never know."
We seem to have missed lunch. Above Libby is still preparing it. Below she is cleaning up after.
Libby cleared the lunch dishes and told Rae she'd wash them later. The wind had picked up again and was blowing frozen snow
Libby was very satisfied with her own small C breasts,
Ok guys. Hands up everyone who thinks C is small. Just as I thought. Only the two perverts in the front row.
Or is a D cup the lesbian equivalent of a nine inch cock?
The women had moved to the couch to drink another cup of coffee.
Wordy. How about "The women had moved to the couch for more coffee."
Good story. Glad I read it.
Tesseract
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:23:48 -0600
On 26 Nov 2002 05:25:21 -0800, HyperTesseract@hotmail.com (Tesseract) wrote:
Libby was very satisfied with her own small C breasts,
Ok guys. Hands up everyone who thinks C is small. Just as I thought. Only the two perverts in the front row.
Or is a D cup the lesbian equivalent of a nine inch cock?
C isn't small, but for a tall woman it isn't all so big either. Not that the exact size matters - Libby could have been satisfied with her A cup breasts instead. But on the big bodied Rae, I'd think that the D cups would be merely large, not extra large.
Breast cup size relates more to body size that cock size does.
I'm not sure how relevant the bust size is, though. Other than maybe Libby likes the sway of Rae's large ones, something that a lot of people seem to enjoy?
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:41:44 -0600
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:23:48 -0600, Jeff Zephyr <jeffzeph@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 26 Nov 2002 05:25:21 -0800, HyperTesseract@hotmail.com (Tesseract) wrote:
Libby was very satisfied with her own small C breasts,
Ok guys. Hands up everyone who thinks C is small. Just as I thought. Only the two perverts in the front row.
Or is a D cup the lesbian equivalent of a nine inch cock?
C isn't small, but for a tall woman it isn't all so big either. Not that the exact size matters - Libby could have been satisfied with her A cup breasts instead. But on the big bodied Rae, I'd think that the D cups would be merely large, not extra large.
Breast cup size relates more to body size that cock size does.
I'm not sure how relevant the bust size is, though. Other than maybe Libby likes the sway of Rae's large ones, something that a lot of people seem to enjoy?
Hmm, "C is small" isn't "small C". Libby wasn't thinking that her breasts were small, she was thinking about their relative size in the cup. Bras come in half sizes, small or large cup (and many other variants to fit).
So Libby wasn't in any way putting down her own breast size. Not only was she satisfied with them (a lot of women aren't, which probably confuses this whole issue), I'm not sure that she was especially concerned about Rae's size - they did bounce nicely, no bra holding them, and that is something that a lot of people might notice about D (or even C or B) cup breasts.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Tesseract
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: 26 Nov 2002 17:11:59 -0800
Jeff Zephyr <jeffzeph@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3de3ca88$0$1399$272ea4a1@news.execpc.com> ...
On 26 Nov 2002 05:25:21 -0800, HyperTesseract@hotmail.com (Tesseract) wrote:
Libby was very satisfied with her own small C breasts,
Ok guys. Hands up everyone who thinks C is small. Just as I thought. Only the two perverts in the front row.
Or is a D cup the lesbian equivalent of a nine inch cock?
C isn't small, but for a tall woman it isn't all so big either. Not that the exact size matters - Libby could have been satisfied with her A cup breasts instead. But on the big bodied Rae, I'd think that the D cups would be merely large, not extra large.
Breast cup size relates more to body size that cock size does.
I'm not sure how relevant the bust size is, though. Other than maybe Libby likes the sway of Rae's large ones, something that a lot of people seem to enjoy?
Rae is a big woman so we would expect her to have big breasts. But the way Libby is described her Cs would make her Playboy material but she seems dissatisfied with them.
Tesseract
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 20:11:28 -0600
On 26 Nov 2002 17:11:59 -0800, HyperTesseract@hotmail.com (Tesseract) wrote:
Jeff Zephyr <jeffzeph@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3de3ca88$0$1399$272ea4a1@news.execpc.com> ... On 26 Nov 2002 05:25:21 -0800, HyperTesseract@hotmail.com (Tesseract) wrote:
Libby was very satisfied with her own small C breasts,
Ok guys. Hands up everyone who thinks C is small. Just as I thought. Only the two perverts in the front row.
Or is a D cup the lesbian equivalent of a nine inch cock?
C isn't small, but for a tall woman it isn't all so big either. Not that the exact size matters - Libby could have been satisfied with her A cup breasts instead. But on the big bodied Rae, I'd think that the D cups would be merely large, not extra large.
Breast cup size relates more to body size that cock size does.
I'm not sure how relevant the bust size is, though. Other than maybe Libby likes the sway of Rae's large ones, something that a lot of people seem to enjoy?
Rae is a big woman so we would expect her to have big breasts. But the way Libby is described her Cs would make her Playboy material but she seems dissatisfied with them.
See my other post. She is satisfied with her "small C" cup size breasts - small meaning that they are in the lower half size of C, not that they are small in stature as breasts go.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Garylian
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 22:26:02 -0600
Jeff Zephyr wrote:
On 26 Nov 2002 17:11:59 -0800, HyperTesseract@hotmail.com (Tesseract) wrote:
Jeff Zephyr <jeffzeph@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3de3ca88$0$1399$272ea4a1@news.execpc.com> ... On 26 Nov 2002 05:25:21 -0800, HyperTesseract@hotmail.com (Tesseract) wrote:
Libby was very satisfied with her own small C breasts,
Ok guys. Hands up everyone who thinks C is small. Just as I thought. Only the two perverts in the front row.
Or is a D cup the lesbian equivalent of a nine inch cock?
C isn't small, but for a tall woman it isn't all so big either. Not that the exact size matters - Libby could have been satisfied with her A cup breasts instead. But on the big bodied Rae, I'd think that the D cups would be merely large, not extra large.
Breast cup size relates more to body size that cock size does.
I'm not sure how relevant the bust size is, though. Other than maybe Libby likes the sway of Rae's large ones, something that a lot of people seem to enjoy?
Rae is a big woman so we would expect her to have big breasts. But the way Libby is described her Cs would make her Playboy material but she seems dissatisfied with them.
See my other post. She is satisfied with her "small C" cup size breasts - small meaning that they are in the lower half size of C, not that they are small in stature as breasts go. - Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
Of course, there is my view of things, shared by my wife. Anything bigger than a C is too much. The nice thing about smaller breasts is that it takes them a long longer to end up at a woman's belly button as they get older. rofl
Garylian
From: cmsix
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 04:31:23 GMT
"Garylian" <Garylian@charter.net> wrote in message news:3DE4495A.A13C3B73@charter.net ...
Jeff Zephyr wrote:
On 26 Nov 2002 17:11:59 -0800, HyperTesseract@hotmail.com (Tesseract) wrote:
Jeff Zephyr <jeffzeph@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3de3ca88$0$1399$272ea4a1@news.execpc.com> ... On 26 Nov 2002 05:25:21 -0800, HyperTesseract@hotmail.com (Tesseract) wrote:
Libby was very satisfied with her own small C breasts,
Ok guys. Hands up everyone who thinks C is small. Just as I thought. Only the two perverts in the front row.
Or is a D cup the lesbian equivalent of a nine inch cock?
C isn't small, but for a tall woman it isn't all so big either. Not that the exact size matters - Libby could have been satisfied with her A cup breasts instead. But on the big bodied Rae, I'd think that the D cups would be merely large, not extra large.
Breast cup size relates more to body size that cock size does.
I'm not sure how relevant the bust size is, though. Other than maybe Libby likes the sway of Rae's large ones, something that a lot of people seem to enjoy?
Rae is a big woman so we would expect her to have big breasts. But the way Libby is described her Cs would make her Playboy material but she seems dissatisfied with them.
See my other post. She is satisfied with her "small C" cup size breasts - small meaning that they are in the lower half size of C, not that they are small in stature as breasts go. - Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
Of course, there is my view of things, shared by my wife. Anything bigger
than a C is too much. The nice
thing about smaller breasts is that it takes them a long longer to end up
at a woman's belly button as they
get older. rofl
Tell your wife that when she gets older and hers head for the belly button that I will be glad to hold them up for her while you're laughing.
cmsix
Garylian
From: Garylian
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:13:25 -0600
cmsix wrote:
"Garylian" <Garylian@charter.net> wrote in message news:3DE4495A.A13C3B73@charter.net ... Jeff Zephyr wrote:
On 26 Nov 2002 17:11:59 -0800, HyperTesseract@hotmail.com (Tesseract) wrote:
Jeff Zephyr <jeffzeph@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3de3ca88$0$1399$272ea4a1@news.execpc.com> ... On 26 Nov 2002 05:25:21 -0800, HyperTesseract@hotmail.com (Tesseract) wrote:
Libby was very satisfied with her own small C breasts,
Ok guys. Hands up everyone who thinks C is small. Just as I thought. Only the two perverts in the front row.
Or is a D cup the lesbian equivalent of a nine inch cock?
C isn't small, but for a tall woman it isn't all so big either. Not that the exact size matters - Libby could have been satisfied with her A cup breasts instead. But on the big bodied Rae, I'd think that the D cups would be merely large, not extra large.
Breast cup size relates more to body size that cock size does.
I'm not sure how relevant the bust size is, though. Other than maybe Libby likes the sway of Rae's large ones, something that a lot of people seem to enjoy?
Rae is a big woman so we would expect her to have big breasts. But the way Libby is described her Cs would make her Playboy material but she seems dissatisfied with them.
See my other post. She is satisfied with her "small C" cup size breasts - small meaning that they are in the lower half size of C, not that they are small in stature as breasts go. - Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
Of course, there is my view of things, shared by my wife. Anything bigger than a C is too much. The nice thing about smaller breasts is that it takes them a long longer to end up at a woman's belly button as they get older. rofl
Tell your wife that when she gets older and hers head for the belly button that I will be glad to hold them up for her while you're laughing.
cmsix
lol, well, cmsix, she might let ya. Fortunately, they haven't done that, yet. I will let her know that she is getting solicited, though. hehehe.
Garylian
From: Eye
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: 26 Nov 2002 14:17:17 -0800
Liked this for its warmth and intimate charm. Also nice to take the 'mythic' plots and revisit them. In addition, I liked the way each plot point had the potential to twist a bit. There is little to improve this one.
HyperTesseract@hotmail.com (Tesseract) wrote:
Katie's words:
The plumber hung the heavy winter coat on a hook in the mud room. Snow pants came off next and finally the ski mask was removed. The plumber wiped snow from the top of the tool box and stomped the mud room floor to remove the accumulated slush and mud from the work boots. Libby got a surprise when the plumber turned back to face her.
I know what you are trying to do here but "the plumber" appears too many times. I don't know how to fix it. You can't use a pronoun since we don't yet know the gender. Maybe you could drop the third sentence, or combine it with the second or first.
This is a good catch.
I'd suggest the second sentence might be:
Wiping snow from the top of the tool box, the figure stomped the mud
room floor ...
This takes the second reference away, and changes the form of two sentences in a row structured the same.
I like closing with humor, but would love to see a turn of phrase that establishes a romantic heat between the two as a closer. Something of a promise ... much like the clever "helps her move in".
Thanks for sharing, Katie.
.-)
Eye
From: Bradley Stoke
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: 26 Nov 2002 11:26:06 -0800
Katie
You asked in your preamble: "What does everyone think of a lesbian romance story?" I could almost answer: what other sort is there? In my rather limited experience of reading any romance, those I have found most interesting and appealing have generally been same sex romances, whether between men or between women. The added frisson and tension that exists in a perfectly natural relationship in a society which is at best ambivalent about same sex love, makes the whole thing much more interesting. After all, the original mediaeval concept of courtly love was about affairs of romantic passion in a society that practised arranged marriages.
I enjoyed the story. The two things I liked most were the descriptions of snow-bound Massachusetts and the very palpable feel of physical beauty in the two women. I was perhaps a bit surprised to see so much attention given to cup size. I thought that was a mostly male obsession, but reassuringly it appears to be shared by anyone who admires women.
Strangely enough, I felt I'd got to know Rae rather better than I had Libby. We know about her job, her past in girl gangs and her attraction for red bras. Libby was rather less well drawn. Beyond the hints of a recent loss (rather like Mary Kay's in "Mallory"), and that she was "upper class", there wasn't much more to know about her. In fact, I wasn't sure whether she had ever enjoyed lesbian love before this encounter. Perhaps she should have been drawn more fully. And as the story came to an end, I felt a bit unsure whether a one-night stand can so easily become a proposition for moving in together. Maybe the women in Katie's world commit rather earlier than those I've ever met, but if I'd been in this situation I think I'd like to have established more fully whether there wasn't already somebody else on Rae's romantic horizon.
Well done. An enjoyable story. Even though there's not much snow in Texas, you've clearly got the feel for it.
Bradley Stoke
http://www.asstr.org/~Bradley_Stoke
From: Altan
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 03:38:52 GMT
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:22:33 -0500, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
The following story is our 71st submission to the FishTank. It is a complete story of 4,196 words. In the author's own words:
"Did you know 40% of all published fiction is romance? The genre has premises and conventions that make the stories wonderful for readers who enjoy romance and a bit difficult for those who are not used to reading stories by Laura Kinsale, Mary Jo Putney and the many other stars of the genre. There is a niche within romance where lesbian romance stories reside. These stories have special features of their own. "Winter Storm" is an example of lesbian romance.
Did you ever hear the story about the woman who called a plumber to fix a broken pipe? The plumber turned out to be a hunk and ... Yep, this is the story or at least one version.
What does everyone think of a lesbian romance story? I'd also like any suggestions for improving the story or my writing, so all comments are welcome."
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
Hi Katie,
I'm not seriously going to try to suggest improvements to your writing, but I'll do my best to write some meaningful remarks about "Winter Storm".
To answer your question about lesbian romance: I have to say that I had never thought about it, but your story read very natural to me. In fact, a guy would probably have been too stubborn or proud to stay, would have gone back through the storm anyway.
Actually, this brings me to the first positive comment. I've seen versions of the more traditional woman-calls-plumber- has-sex on ASSM, but I had never seen a lesbian version of it before. Maybe my lack of reading, but this was definitely a positive aspect for me.
The second thing I liked was how Libby turned the tables and took the lead at one time. I don't particulary believe in one person dominating another, and this seemed to show both women were mature and
Suggestions for improvement: difficult, there were some small things that confused me when reading. For instance,
Her doctor was never clear about why or what or how. She knew life support wasn't helping and told Libby it was time to pull the plug ...
I wasn't sure if it was her lover or her doctor who told Libby to "pull the plug." If it was the doctor, then was the lover male or female? Actually, I never quite figured that out.
The other thing that disturbed me a bit was, that the two women kept using the other's name. When I'm alone with another person, there would be no need to use the other's name all the time, would there?
Oh, and I think the question mark should probably be a period in:
Libby was still indignant when the two women walked into the living room to wait out the storm?
A.
http://www.asstr.org/~altan/
From: Kelli Halliburton
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 00:14:07 GMT
Altan wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:22:33 -0500, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
The following story is our 71st submission to the FishTank. It is a complete story of 4,196 words. In the author's own words:
"Did you know 40% of all published fiction is romance? The genre has premises and conventions that make the stories wonderful for readers who enjoy romance and a bit difficult for those who are not used to reading stories by Laura Kinsale, Mary Jo Putney and the many other stars of the genre. There is a niche within romance where lesbian romance stories reside. These stories have special features of their own. "Winter Storm" is an example of lesbian romance.
Did you ever hear the story about the woman who called a plumber to fix a broken pipe? The plumber turned out to be a hunk and ... Yep, this is the story or at least one version.
What does everyone think of a lesbian romance story? I'd also like any suggestions for improving the story or my writing, so all comments are welcome."
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
Sorry I'm having to tack this on to Altan's message, but I forgot to save the original in my Drafts folder, and now it has cycled out of my newsreader's list of messages to show.
This is not a true FT type critique; it's more a question.
At what point did C-cup boobs like Libby's become "small"? Is this the author's personal opinion (in which case, wow, another breast girl - cool), or is it merely intended as a comparison with Rae's larger D cups?
From: Katie McN
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 03:12:39 GMT
Hi "Kelli Halliburton" <kelli217@crosswinds.not>,
On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 00:14:07 GMT I noticed your interesting post:
Altan wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:22:33 -0500, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
The following story is our 71st submission to the FishTank. It is a complete story of 4,196 words. In the author's own words:
"Did you know 40% of all published fiction is romance? The genre has premises and conventions that make the stories wonderful for readers who enjoy romance and a bit difficult for those who are not used to reading stories by Laura Kinsale, Mary Jo Putney and the many other stars of the genre. There is a niche within romance where lesbian romance stories reside. These stories have special features of their own. "Winter Storm" is an example of lesbian romance.
Did you ever hear the story about the woman who called a plumber to fix a broken pipe? The plumber turned out to be a hunk and ... Yep, this is the story or at least one version.
What does everyone think of a lesbian romance story? I'd also like any suggestions for improving the story or my writing, so all comments are welcome."
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
Sorry I'm having to tack this on to Altan's message, but I forgot to save the original in my Drafts folder, and now it has cycled out of my newsreader's list of messages to show.
This is not a true FT type critique; it's more a question.
At what point did C-cup boobs like Libby's become "small"? Is this the author's personal opinion (in which case, wow, another breast girl - cool), or is it merely intended as a comparison with Rae's larger D cups?
Sigh, earlier Jeff explained this and I was hoping we'd get back to discussing the story, but it still appears to be a "highlight" for some so I will try to explain what it means without directly discussing the story myself until Saturday.
When a woman says she is a "small C", she is describing the size of her boobs and not complaining that she feels she is small. She means she is somewhat smaller than a C cup, but not small enough to fit into a B cup. This is not an "official" bra size but is useful in conversation with other women since they usually are clear on what is meant or when one goes to a place like Victoria's Secret to purchase a bra. The sales person at Victoria's can then suggest certain bras that will fit better for the given size and mention others that won't do as well when she hears a person is normal, small or big for a cup size.
I've checked with a number of women here and several on-line all of whom understood what I meant. None of the women I talked to thought it was out of place in the story as part of the description on the woman.
Hope this clears things up.
It's Me Katie McN
<katie_mcn@earthlink.net>
Read My Stories at:
www.asstr.org/~Katie_McN/
From: Tesseract
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: 27 Nov 2002 23:40:21 -0800
Katie McN <katie_mcn@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<h51buu4ad89b21fu2n9qd8h9io950605f9@4ax.com> ...
Hi "Kelli Halliburton" <kelli217@crosswinds.not>,
...
At what point did C-cup boobs like Libby's become "small"? Is this the author's personal opinion (in which case, wow, another breast girl - cool), or is it merely intended as a comparison with Rae's larger D cups?
Sigh, earlier Jeff explained this and I was hoping we'd get back to discussing the story, but it still appears to be a "highlight" for some so I will try to explain what it means without directly discussing the story myself until Saturday.
When a woman says she is a "small C", she is describing the size of her boobs and not complaining that she feels she is small. She means she is somewhat smaller than a C cup, but not small enough to fit into a B cup. This is not an "official" bra size but is useful in conversation with other women since they usually are clear on what is meant or when one goes to a place like Victoria's Secret to purchase a bra. The sales person at Victoria's can then suggest certain bras that will fit better for the given size and mention others that won't do as well when she hears a person is normal, small or big for a cup size.
I've checked with a number of women here and several on-line all of whom understood what I meant. None of the women I talked to thought it was out of place in the story as part of the description on the woman.
Hope this clears things up.
To bring this almost back on topic, this would have to be a neggy. Maybe most women understand what "small C" means but most men don't. Secret information like that tends to turn off readers and I'm sure you don't want to lose any readers over such a trifling matter, because it is such a nice story.
Tesseract
From: David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 21:32:27 GMT
On 27 Nov 2002 23:40:21 -0800, Tesseract <HyperTesseract@hotmail.com> wrote:
[ ...]
I've checked with a number of women here and several on-line all of whom understood what I meant. None of the women I talked to thought it was out of place in the story as part of the description on the woman.
Hope this clears things up.
To bring this almost back on topic, this would have to be a neggy. Maybe most women understand what "small C" means but most men don't. Secret information like that tends to turn off readers
Um, its things like that I read stories for. I can't live more then my life but threw other peoples stories I can live other peoples lives. So this way I can accumulate the expreneces of others. "Secret women's business" like this facinates me.
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia. See http://dformosa.zeta.org.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html to find out more. Free the Memes.
From: Kelli Halliburton
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 18:19:29 GMT
Katie McN wrote:
Sigh, earlier Jeff explained this and I was hoping we'd get back to discussing the story, but it still appears to be a "highlight" for some so I will try to explain what it means without directly discussing the story myself until Saturday.
Well, I'm sorry for not picking up on this - I suppose that this is one of the things I'll have to absorb into my psyche, as it apparently reveals me as someone who was not born a woman. And to be honest, I had not yet gone through all of the other messages yet in the thread, so I had not yet seen Jeff's explanation. Again, I'm sorry. It has obviously caused you great frustration, and I apologize for adding to it.
I will say that if a turn of phrase such as "on the small side of a C cup" had been used, I would have had no problem understanding what was meant. Believe me, I understand the tribulations of finding a bra that fits.
From: Katie McN
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 21:28:55 GMT
"Kelli Halliburton" <kelli217@crosswinds.not>,
On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 18:19:29 GMT I noticed your interesting post:
Katie McN wrote:
Sigh, earlier Jeff explained this and I was hoping we'd get back to discussing the story, but it still appears to be a "highlight" for some so I will try to explain what it means without directly discussing the story myself until Saturday.
Well, I'm sorry for not picking up on this - I suppose that this is one of the things I'll have to absorb into my psyche, as it apparently reveals me as someone who was not born a woman. And to be honest, I had not yet gone through all of the other messages yet in the thread, so I had not yet seen Jeff's explanation. Again, I'm sorry. It has obviously caused you great frustration, and I apologize for adding to it.
I will say that if a turn of phrase such as "on the small side of a C cup" had been used, I would have had no problem understanding what was meant. Believe me, I understand the tribulations of finding a bra that fits.
We have many threads that wander in directions that are not really related to stories. This is part of the ass.d culture and I'm all for it.
However, the Fishtank is supposed to be 2 positive, 2 improvement suggestions and try not to repeat so an understanding of how women talk with each other shouldn't be required. The initial comment made by Tess on my use of "small C" was valid and something I'm thinking about as I prepare my thoughts for my Saturday post. I hardly ever include women-only or lesbian-only references in stories and will cover this when I discuss the wonderful comments the story has received so far.
I sometimes play the country-bumpkin and/or silly blonde, but when it comes to writing, I'm very serious and continue to try and improve all the time. I was looking forward to Fishtank commentary from people I respect and consider this a golden opportunity. I've already sent e-mail to all the people who took the time to read and evaluate the story and I feel fortunate to have received these exceptional comments which certainly will help me improve my writing. Plus, I got a related e-mail
from one of the romance authors I most respect who says he will provide
me with a detail discussion of my story after I do the rewrite based on the way cool remarks from this thread.
The definition of Usenet is people doing whatever they want, so if you want to focus on boobs that's your right. I'd hoped that people would play the game by the rules and for the most part they have so I really don't have complaints or frustrations. I only jumped in because this was getting out of hand.
It's Me Katie McN
<katie_mcn@earthlink.net>
Read My Stories at:
www.asstr.org/~Katie_McN/
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:25:28 -0600
On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 00:14:07 GMT, "Kelli Halliburton" <kelli217@crosswinds.not> wrote:
Altan wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:22:33 -0500, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
The following story is our 71st submission to the FishTank. It is a complete story of 4,196 words. In the author's own words:
"Did you know 40% of all published fiction is romance? The genre has premises and conventions that make the stories wonderful for readers who enjoy romance and a bit difficult for those who are not used to reading stories by Laura Kinsale, Mary Jo Putney and the many other stars of the genre. There is a niche within romance where lesbian romance stories reside. These stories have special features of their own. "Winter Storm" is an example of lesbian romance.
Did you ever hear the story about the woman who called a plumber to fix a broken pipe? The plumber turned out to be a hunk and ... Yep, this is the story or at least one version.
What does everyone think of a lesbian romance story? I'd also like any suggestions for improving the story or my writing, so all comments are welcome."
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
Sorry I'm having to tack this on to Altan's message, but I forgot to save the original in my Drafts folder, and now it has cycled out of my newsreader's list of messages to show.
This is not a true FT type critique; it's more a question.
At what point did C-cup boobs like Libby's become "small"? Is this the author's personal opinion (in which case, wow, another breast girl - cool), or is it merely intended as a comparison with Rae's larger D cups?
They aren't small, they are "small C" - the lower half size of the C cup.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: 27 Nov 2002 14:14:55 GMT
My favorite part was Rae's tale of the tattoo. My editor's hat fell off during that section, and I didn't even know it. That's real writing!
I also liked the pair of comments, first by Rae about why she came out in the storm - she couldn't ask her employees to do it - and later when Libby tells Rae why she can call in sick.
Thorough proofreading and polishing could help this story a lot - I get stuck all too often by some awkward structure, a questionable word, a typo.
My main concern is with the way Libby's character comes across. Rae stands out, but Libby is something of a blank. I suspect that part of the intent is to have a blank character; this is the story of how she gets filled in, but she just doesn't get off the page. She can be a little dull, a little empty, and still live. My suggestion: rewrite this is first person from Libby's point of view. That way we'll get her voice, well get the change in her voice. And likely the story will flow better.
- Mat Twassel
Mat's Erotic Calendar at http://calendar.atEros.com
From: Leowulf
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 23:26:11 -0000
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote in
news:uu4g45aie3mj47@news.supernews.com:
The following story is our 71st submission to the FishTank. It is a complete story of 4,196 words. In the author's own words:
"Did you know 40% of all published fiction is romance? The genre has premises and conventions that make the stories wonderful for readers who enjoy romance and a bit difficult for those who are not used to reading stories by Laura Kinsale, Mary Jo Putney and the many other stars of the genre. There is a niche within romance where lesbian romance stories reside. These stories have special features of their own. "Winter Storm" is an example of lesbian romance.
Did you ever hear the story about the woman who called a plumber to fix a broken pipe? The plumber turned out to be a hunk and ... Yep, this is the story or at least one version.
What does everyone think of a lesbian romance story? I'd also like any suggestions for improving the story or my writing, so all comments are welcome."
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
1. Way cool! I love stories with strong, agressive females who are sexually attracted to the protagonist (although it's difficult to identify with little Libby, her being female). The big, strong sexy plumber lady is well described and her actions follow logically. If breasts are still an issue in this thread, I'd have simply made them a size DD and left it at that. Mmmm, melons! Ok, back to the story ...
2. Also cool in the abstract: The tease in the introductory paras. Readers in this forum were of course not fooled, but an reader with no prior knowledge would appreciate the sudden revelation of the plumber being a lady. Such misdirection is a fun plot device!
2-1/2. Doesn't really count, but ... I love stories where people are snowbound, cozy inside big frightening storm outside, Mmmm!
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
No glaring shortcomings beyond the grammar/"who does she mean?" thing that was already mentioned. I found a proofreading-type error, though:
Libby was still indignant when the two women walked into the
living room to wait out the storm? She decided to try and forget what happened
The opening sentence is of course not interrogative. :)
3) Try not to repeat!
I hope I didn't. <g>
As an addendum, I don't usually read your stories as lesbian sex is difficult for me to identify with a character, although after reading this one, I'll want to look for others. You're imaginative in how you describe sex scenes, and you describe really good dominant women!
Leowulf
From: cmsix
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 01:14:02 GMT
"Tesseract" <HyperTesseract@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:e59c15bf.0211272340.5ab797f1@posting.google.com ...
Katie McN <katie_mcn@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<h51buu4ad89b21fu2n9qd8h9io950605f9@4ax.com> ... Hi "Kelli Halliburton" <kelli217@crosswinds.not>,
...
At what point did C-cup boobs like Libby's become "small"? Is this the author's personal opinion (in which case, wow, another breast girl - cool), or is it merely intended as a comparison with Rae's larger D cups?
Sigh, earlier Jeff explained this and I was hoping we'd get back to discussing the story, but it still appears to be a "highlight" for some so I will try to explain what it means without directly discussing the story myself until Saturday.
When a woman says she is a "small C", she is describing the size of her boobs and not complaining that she feels she is small. She means she is somewhat smaller than a C cup, but not small enough to fit into a B cup. This is not an "official" bra size but is useful in conversation with other women since they usually are clear on what is meant or when one goes to a place like Victoria's Secret to purchase a bra. The sales person at Victoria's can then suggest certain bras that will fit better for the given size and mention others that won't do as well when she hears a person is normal, small or big for a cup size.
I've checked with a number of women here and several on-line all of whom understood what I meant. None of the women I talked to thought it was out of place in the story as part of the description on the woman.
Hope this clears things up.
To bring this almost back on topic, this would have to be a neggy. Maybe most women understand what "small C" means but most men don't. Secret information like that tends to turn off readers and I'm sure you don't want to lose any readers over such a trifling matter, because it is such a nice story.
I suspect thinking like that is a slippery slope to dumbing down which would probably lead eventually to only dumb readers. You might as well face the fact that some people are going to have trouble understanding what you write and that you are not going to be able make everything simple without writing a simple story.
cmsix
-
Tesseract
From: Conjugate
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:15:47 -0700
"cmsix" <cmsix@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:ubzF9.6329$ta5.767387@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net ...
I suspect thinking like that is a slippery slope to dumbing down which would probably lead eventually to only dumb readers. You might as well face the fact that some people are going to have trouble understanding what you write and that you are not going to be able make everything simple without writing a simple story.
cmsix
There's inspiration for a simple sex story.
Oh, oh. See Dick. See Dick fuck.
See Jane. See Jane fuck back.
Squish, squish, squish. Smooch, smooch, smooch.
See Dick thrust. Thrust, thrust, thrust.
Oh! See Jane Gasp! Oh, oh, oh!
See Dick. See Dick come. Squirt, squirt, squirt.
See Dick and Jane. Dick and Jane lean back.
See Dick smoke. Puff, puff, puff.
See Jane smoke. Puff, puff, puff.
See Dick fall asleep. Oh! Oh! Dick is snoring.
See Jane. Jane is mad. See Jane think about changing her name to "Lorena Bobbitt."
Okay, perhaps that's getting to be a trifle morbid there at the end.
Conjugate
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 18:40:09 -0600
On Thu, 28 Nov 2002 18:19:29 GMT, "Kelli Halliburton" <kelli217@crosswinds.not> wrote:
Katie McN wrote:
Sigh, earlier Jeff explained this and I was hoping we'd get back to discussing the story, but it still appears to be a "highlight" for some so I will try to explain what it means without directly discussing the story myself until Saturday.
Well, I'm sorry for not picking up on this - I suppose that this is one of the things I'll have to absorb into my psyche, as it apparently reveals me as someone who was not born a woman. And to be honest, I had not yet gone through all of the other messages yet in the thread, so I had not yet seen Jeff's explanation. Again, I'm sorry. It has obviously caused you great frustration, and I apologize for adding to it.
It wasn't entirely obvious, but a little bit of bra shopping - or having enough women around you who talk about size and fit issues from time to time - gives you a clue. It isn't entirely obvious, and some other author might have used "small C cup breasts" to mean that they were indeed small sized on the grand scale, not just within the cup size.
I will say that if a turn of phrase such as "on the small side of a C cup" had been used, I would have had no problem understanding what was meant. Believe me, I understand the tribulations of finding a bra that fits.
Maybe "C small". Offhand I can't remember an official half/quarter size scaling thing they do in the cup sizes.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Conjugate
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 16:21:16 -0700
"Jeff Zephyr" <jeffzeph@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3de58c98$0$1406$272ea4a1@news.execpc.com ...
At what point did C-cup boobs like Libby's become "small"? Is this the author's personal opinion (in which case, wow, another breast girl - cool), or is it merely intended as a comparison with Rae's larger D cups?
They aren't small, they are "small C" - the lower half size of the C cup. -
Jeff
Perhaps musical notation would help. The larger end of C-cup size would be "C-Sharp." The smaller end, well, let that be left as an exercise to the interested reader. :-)
Conjugate
trying for note-worthy posts again
From: PleaseCain
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: 30 Nov 2002 07:52:45 GMT
Nice writing. I like the perspective you afford of lesbian romance, slightly different from the hetero gig I'm used to, and I really like stories that show me something new. Finally, by the sixth paragraph, I was sorry I read the intro remarks, which spoiled the surprise; I think you may have got me there had I not read your remarks, but further, the fact that Libby was surprised helped define Rae in my mind, her appearance and mannerisms. Great device!
There were instances in the story where you seemed to describe things happening, instead of making them happen. Mostly areas where Libby was being circumspect in remarking about certain actions: turning the tide of battle by closing a door, the quick change from blushing innocent to outraged woman, her indignation at Rae's pass, Rae wanting to see Libby's books, certain details of lovemaking ... all narrative passages that serve all right, but can sound like the author instead of the characters, and I wonder if certain passages would be strengthened by describing how the characters actually act or feel (she felt her cheeks flush; her hands clenched at her sides; a long-absent warmth in her tummy) instead of them observing how they feel.
Also, these verbs echo, used and then repeated too quickly: "shiver" and "swung."
I am perfectly happy with your use of boobs.
Thank you for a very good contribution to the group. Hope to see more by you.
Cain
From: Desdmona
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 11:18:21 -0500
**************************************** Winter Storm By Katie McN
katie_mcn@earthlink.net
Katie~
This is a very nice story. I like the setting as much as anything. I'm a sucker for any winter story because I love snow, so this story had me at the very beginning. Other people have made comments about the early paragraph concerning Libby's past. I agree with what was mentioned, but I also think it's a very important paragraph. It gives us background without bogging us down with needless minutiae. It's just enough to give us reason why this woman is living where she's at, without making an issue about something that has very little to do with this story, except in how it may frame who Libby is.
I begin to stumble when I meet Rae. What distinguishes her character from a man? She's big, muscular, aggressive, and must have a fairly deep voice because in the beginning, Libby hears her speak twice, but doesn't recognize Rae as female until she sees her without her outer garments. There are the physical attributes: "D" cup, swinging boobs and she wears a thong. But still, Rae seems more mannish than female to me. It's not that it's not believable. There are certainly women who are just like this. I think the thing that niggles at me is the cliché aspect of it. Do lesbian relationships need to be portrayed as one dyke and one small, soft woman? To be fair, if I hadn't considered the opening comments, this probably wouldn't have been an issue to me. I think I went into the story expecting something more, or at least, something different. Lesbian romance was promised, and the setting was perfection to harvest it. I had no problem visualizing the scene, although I agree with John that a little more description of the snow on boughs of trees or weighting down bushes, might add to the story, this extra description is more likely my own preference and not necessary.
But when it came to the characters, I felt a little let down. I wanted intimacy - the kind that would be shared by two women. What do women notice about other women? Boob size? Maybe, but more likely hairstyle, smooth skin, hands, mannerisms, and a myriad of other things that have very little to do with genitals - at least, until genitals become a bigger part of the equation. As I said, this may all be attributed to my own preconceived notions about what lesbian romance means.
Probably the biggest issue I have with this story is dialogue. There are places where it could be used to better advantage and get us to that level of intimacy that I was craving. For example, Libby's a writer. Rae looks at her books. What a great place to add dialogue:
"So, do you write romance novels?" Rae caressed the spine of Libby's latest book, using the same finger she had caressed Libby with earlier.
Libby flinched from the tingle down her own spine. "I-I prefer to think I write stories that have romance in them."
This is just an idea, but there are several things I think exchanges like this might add. First, it adds tension. Obviously, in this situation, there has to be tension. They're strangers, one stranger has made an aggressive pass at another stranger. They're trapped, etc, etc. All this leads to certain uncomfortableness. This uncomfortable setting is exciting. The reader knows it. I think what we need is to see that the characters recognize it too. Not by saying, "this is uncomfortable" but by showing hesitation, awkwardness, etc.
Secondly, exchanges like this can show us that Rae knows how to seduce, and Libby has very mixed emotions between wanting to be seduced and maintaining some preconceived notion about decorum. Somewhere between lunch and dinner, Libby comes to the conclusion that she really wants a relationship with Rae. Why? We need to see more of what tempts Libby and more of what pushes her over the edge. Effective dialogue during mealtime could help.
Thirdly, I believe it was Altan that commented about the overuse of names. I agree with him. People don't address each other constantly by name. It's a tool to depict who's saying what in conversation, but it shouldn't be the only tool. Mix the dialogue with action of the speaker, as in the example above.
Lastly, someone else said something about the two women having the same voice. Distinguishing their voices a little more might go a long way in identifying who is saying what. For example:
"No, that's not what I meant. You're a classy babe and I'm more used to girls who drink beer and cuss."
This is perfect. "You're a classy babe" sounds just exactly like what I might expect Rae to say.
Unfortunately, "It's in my memory, etched in stone, baby. You're not getting off that easy!" also sounds like Rae's voice, when in fact, it's Libby talking.
This is a good story. It's interesting. Minor changes could make it even a better story! Show us more of Libby. Define her as well as you've defined Rae. I want to believe by story's end that these two women didn't just have sex, they started a relationship. The meat of it is there, now you just need to add the gravy!
Thank you very much, Katie, for adding this story to the FishTank! It's been a treat!
Des
From: Kenny N Gamera
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 19:38:09 -0500
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:22:33 -0500, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
Did you ever hear the story about the woman who called a plumber to fix a broken pipe? The plumber turned out to be a hunk and ... Yep, this is the story or at least one version.
What does everyone think of a lesbian romance story? I'd also like any suggestions for improving the story or my writing, so all comments are welcome."
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
Okay, I'll preface this by saying that I am suffering through a few of my own ego problems right now and have given up on certain kinds of stories. Included in this list are stories about lesbians; frankly, I don't need to be reminded that women need guys like the Lions need losses. I have made an exception to that rule: anything by Katie McN is fair game.
I like this story. The pacing of the writing is brisk which plays in its favour. I know from my personal experience that it is easy to bog the reader down with way too many words. You avoid this.
As always, I enjoyed the style of the writing as well. It was very light and casual. I would compare it to that comfortable pair of jeans and the Longhorns [ ;) though I will admit to personally wearing the shirt of a certain minor Div II college that I am not attending at the moment instead] sweatshirt that one would wear around the house.
However (yes there is a however, the rules say that I need two), I do wonder about the "Malory"-like deceased lover at the begining. Katie, are you getting stuck in a rut with this or is there something deeper with the use of this theme that I am missing? Also, I think that you should not have mentioned that Libby had not had sex with a woman, because I half think that this means that she has had sex with a man. Better would to just say that she hadn't had sex, and let us the reader realize that she is a lesbian.
Also, I would like a little detail on what had happened to the woman that Rae had robbed. Was it a violent crime and the victim hurt or was she just treatened? This would let me, the reader, know if Rae could be an eventual treat to Libby.
All in all, I enjoyed this story just like everything Katie has written (especially her romances). I wait to see the final product and wonder if there is an idea for more with these characters.
Thank You and Good Day,
Kenny N Gamera
turtlemeat69@hotmail.com
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: 03 Dec 2002 00:48:18 GMT
Kenny writes:
Also, I would like a little detail on what had happened to the woman that Rae had robbed. Was it a violent crime and the victim hurt or was she just treatened? This would let me, the reader, know if Rae could be an eventual treat to Libby.
For me one of the most delicious moments of the story is that Rae doesn't say what happened to the woman. Even more of a treat is that Libby doesn't ask.
- Mat Twassel
Mat's Erotic Calendar at http://calendar.atEros.com
From: Kenny N Gamera
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 20:38:23 -0500
On 03 Dec 2002 00:48:18 GMT, mmtwassel@aol.com (mat twassel) wrote:
Kenny writes:
Also, I would like a little detail on what had happened to the woman that Rae had robbed. Was it a violent crime and the victim hurt or was she just treatened? This would let me, the reader, know if Rae could be an eventual treat to Libby.
For me one of the most delicious moments of the story is that Rae doesn't say what happened to the woman. Even more of a treat is that Libby doesn't ask.
I don't know. It bothered me a little. I was looking for the result of the crime to tell me a little about Rae as a character. She seemed to be a little contradictory in many ways. I will admit to being a little worried about Libby, wondering whether the real Rae will show up in the future.
Katie mentions that the romance genera has certain rules. In many that I have read, there are two persons after the main character, the wrong one and the right one. Usaully, the wrong one is ahead most of the story, with the right one waiting until the wrong one has done his worst and helps the main character pick up the pieces.
I can't help but think that Rae may be the wrong one ...I would like to see something to say otherwise.
Thank You and Good Day,
Kenny N Gamera
turtlemeat69@hotmail.com
From: Katie McN
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 03:21:42 GMT
Hi Kenny N Gamera <turtlemeat69@hotmail.com>,
On Mon, 02 Dec 2002 20:38:23 -0500 I noticed your interesting post:
On 03 Dec 2002 00:48:18 GMT, mmtwassel@aol.com (mat twassel) wrote:
Kenny writes:
Also, I would like a little detail on what had happened to the woman that Rae had robbed. Was it a violent crime and the victim hurt or was she just treatened? This would let me, the reader, know if Rae could be an eventual treat to Libby.
For me one of the most delicious moments of the story is that Rae doesn't say what happened to the woman. Even more of a treat is that Libby doesn't ask.
I don't know. It bothered me a little. I was looking for the result of the crime to tell me a little about Rae as a character. She seemed to be a little contradictory in many ways. I will admit to being a little worried about Libby, wondering whether the real Rae will show up in the future.
Katie mentions that the romance genera has certain rules. In many that I have read, there are two persons after the main character, the wrong one and the right one. Usaully, the wrong one is ahead most of the story, with the right one waiting until the wrong one has done his worst and helps the main character pick up the pieces.
I can't help but think that Rae may be the wrong one ...I would like to see something to say otherwise.
This is often a good way to create tension in a romance story with the Libby character always looking like she will go for the wrong person. In this case I can't see how a third character could be introduced given the premise that Libby is snowed in.
It's Me Katie McN
<katie_mcn@earthlink.net>
Read My Stories at:
www.asstr.org/~Katie_McN/
From: Kenny N Gamera
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 22:42:05 -0500
On Tue, 03 Dec 2002 03:21:42 GMT, Katie McN <katie_mcn@earthlink.net> wrote:
Hi Kenny N Gamera <turtlemeat69@hotmail.com>,
On Mon, 02 Dec 2002 20:38:23 -0500 I noticed your interesting post:
On 03 Dec 2002 00:48:18 GMT, mmtwassel@aol.com (mat twassel) wrote:
Kenny writes:
Also, I would like a little detail on what had happened to the woman that Rae had robbed. Was it a violent crime and the victim hurt or was she just treatened? This would let me, the reader, know if Rae could be an eventual treat to Libby.
For me one of the most delicious moments of the story is that Rae doesn't say what happened to the woman. Even more of a treat is that Libby doesn't ask.
I don't know. It bothered me a little. I was looking for the result of the crime to tell me a little about Rae as a character. She seemed to be a little contradictory in many ways. I will admit to being a little worried about Libby, wondering whether the real Rae will show up in the future.
Katie mentions that the romance genera has certain rules. In many that I have read, there are two persons after the main character, the wrong one and the right one. Usaully, the wrong one is ahead most of the story, with the right one waiting until the wrong one has done his worst and helps the main character pick up the pieces.
I can't help but think that Rae may be the wrong one ...I would like to see something to say otherwise.
This is often a good way to create tension in a romance story with the Libby character always looking like she will go for the wrong person. In this case I can't see how a third character could be introduced given the premise that Libby is snowed in.
Yeah, but how about after she moves in? HUH? ;)
Kenny
turtlemeat69@hotmail.com
From: Katie McN
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 05:22:32 GMT
Hi Kenny N Gamera <turtlemeat69@hotmail.com>,
On Mon, 02 Dec 2002 22:42:05 -0500 I noticed your interesting post:
[ ... ]
Katie mentions that the romance genera has certain rules. In many that I have read, there are two persons after the main character, the wrong one and the right one. Usaully, the wrong one is ahead most of the story, with the right one waiting until the wrong one has done his worst and helps the main character pick up the pieces.
I can't help but think that Rae may be the wrong one ...I would like to see something to say otherwise.
This is often a good way to create tension in a romance story with the Libby character always looking like she will go for the wrong person. In this case I can't see how a third character could be introduced given the premise that Libby is snowed in.
Yeah, but how about after she moves in? HUH? ;)
I'm not sure I'll have the time since I've got an inspiration for another Mary Kay story which should be done in the near future. If things go well, I could get on a Mary Kay kick for awhile (I hope.)
It's Me Katie McN
<katie_mcn@earthlink.net>
Read My Stories at:
www.asstr.org/~Katie_McN/
From: Kenny N Gamera
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 11:49:59 -0500
On Tue, 03 Dec 2002 05:22:32 GMT, Katie McN <katie_mcn@earthlink.net> wrote:
I'm not sure I'll have the time since I've got an inspiration for another Mary Kay story which should be done in the near future. If things go well, I could get on a Mary Kay kick for awhile (I hope.)
Yay!
Kenny
turtlemeat69@hotmail.com
From: Conjugate
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:29:36 -0700
"Katie McN" <katie_mcn@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:gj8ouuc19g478q7hpah633hmaerfnfkvhv@4ax.com ...
Hi Kenny N Gamera <turtlemeat69@hotmail.com>,
Katie mentions that the romance genera has certain rules. In many that I have read, there are two persons after the main character, the wrong one and the right one. Usaully, the wrong one is ahead most of the story, with the right one waiting until the wrong one has done his worst and helps the main character pick up the pieces.
I can't help but think that Rae may be the wrong one ...I would like to see something to say otherwise.
This is often a good way to create tension in a romance story with the Libby character always looking like she will go for the wrong person. In this case I can't see how a third character could be introduced given the premise that Libby is snowed in.
Well, let's see. Libby needs both a plumber and a carpenter. Both show up in the same snowstorm. Both ask her for the use of her spare bedroom, but one has to sleep with Libby as the spare bedroom has only a small (twin) bed.
For that matter, throw in a piano tuner and all four could make beautiful music together. Of course, you start straining the suspension of disbelief. I could see the plumber and even the carpenter being dedicated enough to come out in the snowstorm, but the piano tuner? "I thought to myself, sure, it's cold and it's snowing, and maybe I'll get snowed in with three other beautiful women with nothing to do but snuggle in front of a warm fire and drink hot chocolate, but when I took my Piano Tuner's Oath, I knew that I might someday have to face that risk." Hmmm ... possibilities there, perhaps.
Or try this: "I thought, maybe that poor woman will be trapped in the blizzard with nothing to do but try to practice her scales, and the thought of her trapped all alone with the middle "C" key a whole quarter-step off was just more than I could bear."
Throw in a female electrician, a broken-down bus full of Catholic school girls on their way to a gymnastics meet ("Pardon us, ma'am, but could we use your drawing room to stretch and limber up? If there's a break in the weather, we might make it to the meet on time, and we'd hate to be all stiff ....") and you have the makings of a true classic.
What the heck, throw in a buxom young Avon (TM) lady who really has GOT to sell several more cases of Skin-So-Soft or be fired for failing to make her quota, and who knows what kinds of things might not result? Probably won't be all that believable by then, but what the heck. Readers' keyboards will be too sticky for them to write complaints and so forth. :-)
Conjugate
wondering if he should have had Sally Ride and Ruth Bader Ginsburg show up
too
From: Katie McN
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 05:27:40 GMT
Hi "Conjugate" <conjugate@butter.toast.net>,
On Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:29:36 -0700 I noticed your interesting post:
"Katie McN" <katie_mcn@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:gj8ouuc19g478q7hpah633hmaerfnfkvhv@4ax.com ... Hi Kenny N Gamera <turtlemeat69@hotmail.com>,
Katie mentions that the romance genera has certain rules. In many that I have read, there are two persons after the main character, the wrong one and the right one. Usaully, the wrong one is ahead most of the story, with the right one waiting until the wrong one has done his worst and helps the main character pick up the pieces.
I can't help but think that Rae may be the wrong one ...I would like to see something to say otherwise.
This is often a good way to create tension in a romance story with the Libby character always looking like she will go for the wrong person. In this case I can't see how a third character could be introduced given the premise that Libby is snowed in.
Well, let's see. Libby needs both a plumber and a carpenter. Both show up in the same snowstorm. Both ask her for the use of her spare bedroom, but one has to sleep with Libby as the spare bedroom has only a small (twin) bed.
For that matter, throw in a piano tuner and all four could make beautiful music together. Of course, you start straining the suspension of disbelief. I could see the plumber and even the carpenter being dedicated enough to come out in the snowstorm, but the piano tuner? "I thought to myself, sure, it's cold and it's snowing, and maybe I'll get snowed in with three other beautiful women with nothing to do but snuggle in front of a warm fire and drink hot chocolate, but when I took my Piano Tuner's Oath, I knew that I might someday have to face that risk." Hmmm ... possibilities there, perhaps.
Or try this: "I thought, maybe that poor woman will be trapped in the blizzard with nothing to do but try to practice her scales, and the thought of her trapped all alone with the middle "C" key a whole quarter-step off was just more than I could bear."
Throw in a female electrician, a broken-down bus full of Catholic school girls on their way to a gymnastics meet ("Pardon us, ma'am, but could we use your drawing room to stretch and limber up? If there's a break in the weather, we might make it to the meet on time, and we'd hate to be all stiff ....") and you have the makings of a true classic.
What the heck, throw in a buxom young Avon (TM) lady who really has GOT to sell several more cases of Skin-So-Soft or be fired for failing to make her quota, and who knows what kinds of things might not result? Probably won't be all that believable by then, but what the heck. Readers' keyboards will be too sticky for them to write complaints and so forth. :-)
Conjugate
wondering if he should have had Sally Ride and Ruth Bader Ginsburg show up too
Actually, I've been thinking about writing another Katie R and Claudette story and this would be a typical plot for them. Just throw in George Jones, The Predtones, a couple of Nuns who are suddenly possessed by evil spirits, an Aussie pimp, 200 14 yo old society girls from Del Rio Texas and it just might be a classic.
It's Me Katie McN
<katie_mcn@earthlink.net>
Read My Stories at:
www.asstr.org/~Katie_McN/
From: Conjugate
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 01:03:06 -0700
"Katie McN" <katie_mcn@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:l3gouu4ltk0snalkair05i2q99g0djtb9h@4ax.com ...
Hi "Conjugate" <conjugate@butter.toast.net>,
What the heck, throw in a buxom young Avon (TM) lady who really has GOT to sell several more cases of Skin-So-Soft or be fired for failing to make her quota, and who knows what kinds of things might not result? Probably won't be all that believable by then, but what the heck. Readers' keyboards will be too sticky for them to write complaints and so forth. :-)
Conjugate
wondering if he should have had Sally Ride and Ruth Bader Ginsburg show up too
Actually, I've been thinking about writing another Katie R and Claudette story and this would be a typical plot for them. Just throw in George Jones, The Predtones, a couple of Nuns who are suddenly possessed by evil spirits, an Aussie pimp, 200 14 yo old society girls from Del Rio Texas and it just might be a classic.
And, while we're up, say that a charter bus containing Sarah Michelle Gellar, Charisma Carpenter, Christina Applegate, and (oh, what the heck) Anna Kournikova breaks down nearby, too. After all, why stop too soon?
Conjugate
looking forward to this epic
From: Katie McN
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 08:42:07 GMT
Hi "Conjugate" <conjugate@butter.toast.net>,
On Tue, 3 Dec 2002 01:03:06 -0700 I noticed your interesting post:
"Katie McN" <katie_mcn@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:l3gouu4ltk0snalkair05i2q99g0djtb9h@4ax.com ... Hi "Conjugate" <conjugate@butter.toast.net>,
What the heck, throw in a buxom young Avon (TM) lady who really has GOT to sell several more cases of Skin-So-Soft or be fired for failing to make her quota, and who knows what kinds of things might not result? Probably won't be all that believable by then, but what the heck. Readers' keyboards will be too sticky for them to write complaints and so forth. :-)
Conjugate
wondering if he should have had Sally Ride and Ruth Bader Ginsburg show up too
Actually, I've been thinking about writing another Katie R and Claudette story and this would be a typical plot for them. Just throw in George Jones, The Predtones, a couple of Nuns who are suddenly possessed by evil spirits, an Aussie pimp, 200 14 yo old society girls from Del Rio Texas and it just might be a classic.
And, while we're up, say that a charter bus containing Sarah Michelle Gellar, Charisma Carpenter, Christina Applegate, and (oh, what the heck) Anna Kournikova breaks down nearby, too. After all, why stop too soon?
From time to time when I want to perk myself up and so forth, so I think
about casting a Katie R film. The following are results from my latest casting couch episodes.
I'm pretty much settled on Zara Whites as Dora Lee and Bijou Phillips as Katie R. I also think that Isabella Rosellini would make a pretty good Sister Mary Margaret since she comes from Italy, but I'd go with Rosanna Arquette if Isabella wasn't available since Rosanna played a fake religious person in one of her films and looks good in cute underwear which is a major requirement for my film.
I go back and forth on Claudette. For awhile I was thinking of maybe using Katie Holmes for the role, but now I figure Anna Kornikova would be perfect. Now you might ask could I get away with using someone with a Russian accent in the role of the Flower of Canadian Young Womanhood? Consider this, I'd have someone ask her early in the film what kind of accent she had and she would say Canadian. No one in the US would know the difference and Canadians would think it was just another example of us being stupid and so forth.
Since you brought up those other babes, I figure I better think of roles for them, too. This will mean that I have to get off line while I contemplate this and relieve my tensions from all the intellectual activity.
It's Me Katie McN
<katie_mcn@earthlink.net>
Read My Stories at:
www.asstr.org/~Katie_McN/
From: Kenny N Gamera
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 11:53:49 -0500
On Tue, 03 Dec 2002 08:42:07 GMT, Katie McN <katie_mcn@earthlink.net> wrote:
From time to time when I want to perk myself up and so forth, so I think about casting a Katie R film. The following are results from my latest casting couch episodes.
Could I play the prevert you have mentioned living in the linen closet at McN Manor on occassion.
Pleeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzeeee
I've got my own overcoat.
Thank you and Good Day,
Kenny N Gamera
turtlemeat69@hotmail.com
From: Katie McN
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 22:03:42 GMT
Hi Kenny N Gamera <turtlemeat69@hotmail.com>,
On Tue, 03 Dec 2002 11:53:49 -0500 I noticed your interesting post:
On Tue, 03 Dec 2002 08:42:07 GMT, Katie McN <katie_mcn@earthlink.net> wrote:
From time to time when I want to perk myself up and so forth, so I think about casting a Katie R film. The following are results from my latest casting couch episodes.
Could I play the prevert you have mentioned living in the linen closet at McN Manor on occassion.
Pleeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzeeee
I've got my own overcoat.
Actually, I think the better guy parts belong to Dr. Malinov, Professor Sniff and Mike the Chauffeur. I seem to recall that these are the only men on record who have had sex with Katie R. This means that whoever plays these guys in the film with get to bang Bijou Phillips. It should be a lot of fun unless I wear her out on the casting couch first, or, during the lesbian love making training sessions which will be more or less continuous during filming and so forth.
It's Me Katie McN
<katie_mcn@earthlink.net>
Read My Stories at:
www.asstr.org/~Katie_McN/
From: Conjugate
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 21:38:28 -0700
"Kenny N Gamera" <turtlemeat69@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:0aopuu4mil1j23791u3fks0bsb0qgfhp1t@4ax.com ...
On Tue, 03 Dec 2002 08:42:07 GMT, Katie McN <katie_mcn@earthlink.net> wrote:
From time to time when I want to perk myself up and so forth, so I think about casting a Katie R film. The following are results from my latest casting couch episodes.
Could I play the prevert you have mentioned living in the linen closet at McN Manor on occassion.
Pleeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzeeee
I've got my own overcoat.
I don't know if Katie McN uses that much typecasting. :-) But perhaps so; consider her suggestions for the other roles.
Conjugate
From: sue
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: 3 Dec 2002 18:28:15 -0800
Katie McN <katie_mcn@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<03rouuofl37dr85157fup8kri2g9aokhr0@4ax.com> ...
I go back and forth on Claudette. For awhile I was thinking of maybe using Katie Holmes for the role, but now I figure Anna Kornikova would be perfect. Now you might ask could I get away with using someone with a Russian accent in the role of the Flower of Canadian Young Womanhood? Consider this, I'd have someone ask her early in the film what kind of accent she had and she would say Canadian. No one in the US would know the difference and Canadians would think it was just another example of us being stupid and so forth.
Those who live in the northern states near the Canadian border can definitely tell the difference. However, there are many Russians living in Canada these days although I think few of them are named Claudette.
sue
From: Katie McN
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 04:47:49 GMT
Hi qilady@mailandnews.com (sue),
On 3 Dec 2002 18:28:15 -0800 I noticed your interesting post:
Katie McN <katie_mcn@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<03rouuofl37dr85157fup8kri2g9aokhr0@4ax.com> ...
I go back and forth on Claudette. For awhile I was thinking of maybe using Katie Holmes for the role, but now I figure Anna Kornikova would be perfect. Now you might ask could I get away with using someone with a Russian accent in the role of the Flower of Canadian Young Womanhood? Consider this, I'd have someone ask her early in the film what kind of accent she had and she would say Canadian. No one in the US would know the difference and Canadians would think it was just another example of us being stupid and so forth.
Those who live in the northern states near the Canadian border can definitely tell the difference. However, there are many Russians living in Canada these days although I think few of them are named Claudette.
I had a Canadian girlfriend for awhile and could always get to her by mentioning her Canadian accent which she didn't think she had. When someone would come around with a very noticeable accent from Mexico or a similar place, I'd tell her that she sounded just like that person. Perhaps this explains why we're no longer together. ;-)
It's Me Katie McN
<katie_mcn@earthlink.net>
Read My Stories at:
www.asstr.org/~Katie_McN/
From: Katie McN
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 03:14:49 GMT
Hi mmtwassel@aol.com (mat twassel),
On 03 Dec 2002 00:48:18 GMT I noticed your interesting post:
Kenny writes:
Also, I would like a little detail on what had happened to the woman that Rae had robbed. Was it a violent crime and the victim hurt or was she just treatened? This would let me, the reader, know if Rae could be an eventual treat to Libby.
For me one of the most delicious moments of the story is that Rae doesn't say what happened to the woman. Even more of a treat is that Libby doesn't ask.
I kind of like this direction myself and really can't think of a way to include more without digressing too far from the main story.
It's Me Katie McN
<katie_mcn@earthlink.net>
Read My Stories at:
www.asstr.org/~Katie_McN/
From: Katie McN
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 03:10:55 GMT
Hi Kenny!
Thanks for the nice comments and valuable input. I wasn't able to think of how I would handle the problem of Libby and her dead lover and you showed me a way to do it. As far as the dead person goes, yes, I'm still hung up on that and use writing to work it through. I started the story on the day Mallory died and it seemed like something that should be in the story even though it has been heard before from me.
When I was considering the robbery at the ATM, I thought about a scene where some classy babe stopped to use the machine and in addition to Rae making her max her limit in cash, she might have to give up her clothes and car in some sort of dignity robbing scene, but it seemed to take away from the main story. I'll give some thought to this and see if I can do something with it.
As far as how Rae would treat Libby, the regular readers of lesbian romance novels know that they are a perfect match once Libby teaches Rae sensitivity and Rae takes care of everything else. Yep, that's how lesbian romances work. Sort of like how hetero romances work except there is a rough and tumble guy instead of a tall, dark woman.
It's my thought that women either are lesbians or they are not. Given that, it is not likely that going out with you causes them to convert although, if you really can do it, there are some women around here that I would really like to do and maybe ... Sorry, couldn't resist. being silly.
Anyhow, thanks for taking the time to write and the way cool suggestions for my story.
xxx,
MK
<snipped all of Kenny's comments which can be found on the prior message>
It's Me Katie McN
<katie_mcn@earthlink.net>
Read My Stories at:
www.asstr.org/~Katie_McN/
From: Kenny N Gamera
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 11:48:45 -0500
On Tue, 03 Dec 2002 03:10:55 GMT, Katie McN <katie_mcn@earthlink.net> wrote:
It's my thought that women either are lesbians or they are not. Given that, it is not likely that going out with you causes them to convert although, if you really can do it, there are some women around here that I would really like to do and maybe ... Sorry, couldn't resist. being silly.
Never resist being silly. ;) and saying such ....
The Blind Date
by
Kenny N Gamera
Ding Dong. Sound of door opening
"Oh, Hello. You must be Kenny."
"Yeah, Baby. Are you Mindy?"
"Yes. Uh come in and sit down while I finish getting ready."
"Sure thing, Sugar."
"Wow, I can't believe that Katie would set me up. Well, I believe that, but not with a guy. I mean, she has been after me for years and ..."
"Times change, Honey. Maybe she just saw the light."
"Could be. Anyway, she said you were special."
"I am, Baby. Never been a hoopier frode" (1)
"Wow. But you sure look differant, though."
"Hey, Sweetmeat. I'm one of a kind. An original."
"Yeah, you seem to be, but what is that you are wearing."
"It is the latest 2003 streamline Boogie Shell." (2)
"Oh?"
"Yes, they have improved it over last year's model. It is more stream lined for better dancing. And the recessed buttons are more Catholic school girl proof to prevent dangerous accidents."
"I see."
"Yes, with this I can dance as well as Fred Rogers and Ginger Astare combined." (3)
"Oh?"
"Yes, and after you see me dance you will just need to sample my turtlemeat. Heheheheheheheh."
"I will?"
"Yep, my little sugar plum. Let me show you I press this button here and .... .....whoooooooooooooooooa."
"Wow, I've never seen a turtle spin so fast, before. Can you do other tricks."
"Heeeeeeelllllllllllllllllllppppppppppppppp!"
"But for some reason, I just don't see myself wanting any ...what did you call it ...turtlemeat? Anyway, I just don't seem to be interested in any meat at all now."
"Eeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrppppppppppppppp!"
"I don't think you should be pushing all of those buttons, Mr Gamera."
"Ooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhh myyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, Goooooooooooooodzillaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!"
"Neat. Jets. Just like in the movies."
"Noooooooooooooooooo! Not agaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin!"
Sound of breaking drywall.
"Hmmmmmmmm!" Boop, boop, boop, beep. "Hello, Katie. This is Mindy ...Okay, I guess ...Kenny just left ...Yeah ...Hey, Katie could you maybe come over? ... Yeah ...Bring some of that too ...Oh, and that strap-on you mentioned ...Good. See you, bye."
Notes:
1) Okay, Hitchhikers fans and fannettes, how DO you spell frod, frode,
froed, whatever.
2) Tip of the hat to Aquillae for this. See "His Another Day, Another
ASS*"
http://www.asstr.org/~ERui_Favorites/VBC/Another_Day_Another_ASS.htm
3) I know. Don't bother writing.
From: Conjugate
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 21:40:48 -0700
"Kenny N Gamera" <turtlemeat69@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:93mpuu8f5ha17uge5nbqsouvdm990pns69@4ax.com ...
"Hmmmmmmmm!" Boop, boop, boop, beep. "Hello, Katie. This is Mindy ...Okay, I guess ...Kenny just left ...Yeah ...Hey, Katie could you maybe come over? ... Yeah ...Bring some of that too ...Oh, and that strap-on you mentioned ...Good. See you, bye."
Ah, yes; baby oil. Great when no condoms are involved.
____________
Notes:
1) Okay, Hitchhikers fans and fannettes, how DO you spell frod, frode, froed, whatever.
frood, I believe.
Conjugate
who bothered writing anyway
From: Leowulf
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 05:23:53 -0000
"Conjugate" <conjugate@butter.toast.net> wrote in news:uur1ss6f596n59 @corp.supernews.com:
"Kenny N Gamera" <turtlemeat69@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:93mpuu8f5ha17uge5nbqsouvdm990pns69@4ax.com ...
"Hmmmmmmmm!" Boop, boop, boop, beep. "Hello, Katie. This is Mindy ...Okay, I guess ...Kenny just left ...Yeah ...Hey, Katie could you maybe come over? ... Yeah ...Bring some of that too ...Oh, and that strap-on you mentioned ...Good. See you, bye."
Ah, yes; baby oil. Great when no condoms are involved.
____________
Notes:
1) Okay, Hitchhikers fans and fannettes, how DO you spell frod, frode, froed, whatever.
frood, I believe.
Conjugate
who bothered writing anyway
Now that Conjugate is one frood who knows where his towel is!
LW
From: Katie McN
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:01:34 GMT
Hi Everyone!
I feel like a very lucky girl having 19 people take the time to help me with my writing. Your participation in Fishtank 71 was far more than I expected. I appreciate all the nice comments and will benefit greatly
from your helpful suggestions.
I want to thank Altan, Bradley Stoke cmsix, Conjugate, David Formosa, Desdmona, Eye of Serpent, faery, Hecate, HyperTeseract, Jeff Zephyr, Johndear, Leowulf, Mat Twassel, PeeJ, PleaseCain, Sara H, Tabico and Wiseguy for making me feel great with the positive comments and then pointing out areas where I can improve the story and also my writing in general.
Some of you may not know this, but I'm a very insecure person. A special thanks to cmsix for posting his comments early on. I was worried that no one would say anything, or that there would be just one post mentioning that I lowered the standards for the written word, so reading what cmsix had to say was a big relief.
I want to give a special thanks to Eye of Serpent who made some suggestions that changed my early draft from a pedestrian exercise to the draft I posted here. I also want to point out that I sent the story to Des before PeeJ had a chance to edit it so don't blame him for the spelling, grammar and logic errors. Same girl who always does that, did it again. ;-(
Finally, I have some special thoughts for Desdmona. As I mentioned to you outside the group, this is the best writing event we've ever had on ass.d during the time I've participated. There have been 71 stories so far and it doesn't appear that things are slowing down. I've been helped by reading the input as well as by being lucky enough to receive so many valuable comments. I think we are all lucky that Des is willing to manage this event week after week. Thanks!
Romance stories are loved by those of us who read them and not always understood by those who don't enjoy the genre. The category has rules and conventions that often act as short-cuts and authors sometimes assume that all readers understand what they are. This adds to the difficulty for the new or occasional reader. The lesbian variation uses most of the standard conventions and adds some that make the stories more interesting to lesbian romance readers and less comprehensible to others. I'll try to summarize the most pertinent, but before I do, I'd like to mention that a story coded Rom is not the same as a romance story. Romance stories cover every genre including erotica, horror, S-F, suspense, mystery and what have you. Here the term Romance indicates a type of story that follows conventions that have been around for a long time and are cherished by readers of these stories.
The general lesbian romance strategy is that there are two people who will not seem right for each other at the start of the story, but who will be happily together on the last page and not usually before then. Regular readers know this and look for the pair immediately and then kick back to watch it all unfold. The more grief the better.
The characters almost always consist of a sensitive woman who is not coping well with real life and has all sorts of problems. She is frequently described as blonde, cuddly, beautiful and highly moral. The second character is almost always tall, dark, strong, able to easily handle life's problems, pragmatic and a person who has very little sensitivity. Regular readers may have a feeling for the characters and possibly "know what they look like" as soon as the come on stage. The romance author rides the fine line between the needs of character development and the regular reader's desire for the author to get on with the story.
The lesbian romance reader is most satisfied when the characters are different in almost every way. If it's possible to say "there is no way these two could ever get together", the lesbian romance reader (and regular romance reader as well) is happy as can be. She can't wait to see how it comes about.
Romance stories almost always rely on the use of third person, limited omniscient point of view. The reader is interested in getting into the heads of both main characters and likes nothing better than to see a love scene or a dramatic scene replayed from the POV of each character if it can be done effectively. An added benefit of limited omniscient is the ability to have one character flesh out the other without the need to use things like "She looked in the mirror and was amazed that her long blonde hair ... ", or, "She was always embarrassed when people told her she was the most beautiful woman ... ".
Lesbian stories almost never have a strong or important male character unless the person is a villain and, even if there is a villain, a woman is frequently preferred in the role. Often there are no men in the story at all. The women in the story are always lesbians and this is never looked at as something out of the ordinary or something that would require explanation.
There wasn't a single improvement opportunity that wasn't valid and I plan to try to overcome each one of the story short comings in the revision. I also feel that the rewrite ideas were all good, but don't think I will rewrite in the first person since I'm currently trying to learn how to write third person. Instead, I will try to add some features to overcome the problems related to this in other ways.
I'm a "self taught" writer and feel insecure in many areas. I also managed to pick up some biases along the way and my cultural heritage also gets in the way. All of these were on display here and you managed to spot each one.
The biggest mistake I made in writing the story is my failure to use limited omniscient point of view. If I had done this, there would have been a better chance that both characters would have emerged as real instead of Libby coming across as cardboard. I have very little experience writing omniscient and felt I was not good enough yet to tackle it. I was wrong in not trying since failure to do so caused many problems in the story.
I also did a few things that I shouldn't when I relied on the conventions of the genre to cover points I should have made clear myself. For example, the dead person would be a woman and Libby would be a lesbian by definition. Even though this wouldn't confuse a regular lesbian reader, I realize that I should have provided this information in the story.
I really don't know how to effectively write descriptive material that fits the needs of a story, but doesn't slow it down. Now I have some real examples of what I can do and look forward to trying to see if I can write some of the things suggested by the group. Several people liked the locale that I selected for the story. I was thinking of a writer who I talk with from time to time who lives in Boston and suspected there were would be snow on the ground there when this story was posted. If I were able to describe things better, I can see how the story could be greatly improved.
Libby ended up flat. I mentioned that this is handled in romance through the use of omniscient POV. This is not excuse. I made the decision to avoid using omniscient and cheated the reader in the process. This is something that will get a great deal of attention in the revision.
I know why I failed to give each character a voice. I usually edit dialog by imagining the character saying the words. I didn't do this and both people came across talking like me. I feel like kicking myself in the butt for screwing up here. I've been able to write in voice for all sorts of characters in other stories and this has to be considered a poor result.
I suck at dialog and plan on spending a lot more time trying to overcome my shortcomings if I can. I still haven't got past the mechanical things of adding beats and so on. Eventually, I hope to be able to write dialog second nature and then maybe it will turn out right. Trying to "weave dialog and descriptions" as suggested by a couple of folks is way beyond my abilities for now. I'm going to try to do it in the revision, but don't expect to succeed.
Spelling and grammar errors are always a problem for me. I happen to read things the way they "should be" instead of the way they are "actually written". I also come from a part of the country where the use of the perfect tense is considered uppity and something to be avoided. PeeJ gets after me to use it when needed, but for some reason I'd rather try to rewrite so it won't be needed. I guess I "under do it" and need to get past my phobia. OTOH I do think that some of the people from the home of the English language over do the use of the perfect tense in fiction, but maybe that's just me. ;-)
I fell in love with the idea that the plumber being a woman would be a surprise. Eye mentioned that no one familiar with the genre would be surprised and since codes are used with posted stories, no one else would be either unless I failed to indicate the type of story. This caused a bunch of story problems for a very limited benefit, I might still try to overcome the resulting issues if I can, but could just cut the surprise out of the story. At least two of the writing books I've read say that if one falls in love with something, it should be chopped out of the story. We shall see if this makes the next cut.
The "small C" thing was a distraction and something that won't appear in the revision. As mentioned earlier, I talk the way the dialog was written in this story and never gave the phrase a thought. It didn't occur to me that it would be such a speed bump and end up being the total focus for some people. I've seen the exact phrase used in published lesbian fiction, but still should have known better. I'm sorry so much energy was wasted on that single point.
There was a comment from someone that a person who normally didn't read lesbian stories who seemed to indicate he liked this on. Thanks! As it happens I've written stories from the POV of all sorts of people ranging
from 13 yo girls to 50 yo women, 15 yo boys to adult men. In addition to
FF, I've also written MF and MM. I've tried to use as many codes as possible in my stories and I figure that someone might be in for a big surprise if he or she happened to pick up "I'll Do Anything" or "Lakeside Youth Sanitarium" without noticing the codes first. ;-)
My website hasn't been updated for a couple of years and after hearing that people didn't know about my other stories, I figure I better do something about it so people could get a better idea about what I write, if they're interested. The front page of my website has been updated to include some new pics and a link where people can ask me what happened to my shirt in that one picture. The front page is an example of where I'm going with the site. Hope you like the changes. I'm trying to gather up all my stories and post them to my FTP and website as soon as I can along with some descriptive stuff to make sure you Rom folks don't stumble across my hardcore Hum, Blackmail and other codes that tend to squick.
Thanks again to all of you who participated in Fishtank 71. I can't find the words to express how wonderful it is to have friends who are willing to give some of themselves to help me. I'll post the revision as soon as I can and hope you all see the story improvements relating directly from your suggestions.
It's Me Katie McN
<katie_mcn@earthlink.net>
Read My Stories at:
www.asstr.org/~Katie_McN/
From: Tesseract
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: 30 Nov 2002 21:01:13 -0800
Katie McN <katie_mcn@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<g6fiuu8as7e9qlfk7gqsdi17m3em86k6tc@4ax.com> ...
Hi Everyone!
...
Some of you may not know this, but I'm a very insecure person. A special thanks to cmsix for posting his comments early on. I was worried that no one would say anything, or that there would be just one post mentioning that I lowered the standards for the written word, so reading what cmsix had to say was a big relief.
I understand exactly how you feel.
I want to give a special thanks to Eye of Serpent who made some suggestions that changed my early draft from a pedestrian exercise to the draft I posted here. I also want to point out that I sent the story to Des before PeeJ had a chance to edit it so don't blame him for the spelling, grammar and logic errors. Same girl who always does that, did it again. ;-(
I'm not a fiction writer but even in the technical writing I do I've discovered a good proofreader is best. Second is to let the material age for a few days otherwise I see what I want not what I wrote; even obvious typos are easy to miss. I'm sure anybody doing any kind of writing has the same problem. Spell checkers help but are not a perfect solution. ...
Spelling and grammar errors are always a problem for me. I happen to read things the way they "should be" instead of the way they are "actually written". I also come from a part of the country where the use of the perfect tense is considered uppity and something to be avoided. PeeJ gets after me to use it when needed, but for some reason I'd rather try to rewrite so it won't be needed. I guess I "under do it" and need to get past my phobia. OTOH I do think that some of the people from the home of the English language over do the use of the perfect tense in fiction, but maybe that's just me. ;-)
You slowly add tools to your writer's tool kit as you master their use. After it is in your tool kit you should not be afraid to use it. It's not 'uppity' to use all the tools at your command. That you can put a few thousand words together into a coherent, interesting story already makes you superior, at least in some respects, to most other people
I fell in love with the idea that the plumber being a woman would be a surprise. Eye mentioned that no one familiar with the genre would be surprised and since codes are used with posted stories, no one else would be either unless I failed to indicate the type of story. This caused a bunch of story problems for a very limited benefit, I might still try to overcome the resulting issues if I can, but could just cut the surprise out of the story. At least two of the writing books I've read say that if one falls in love with something, it should be chopped out of the story. We shall see if this makes the next cut.
The twist is a waste of good writing if the story is published in such a way, or in such place, that it is obvious. If you feel comfortable publishing it with just a Romance code and without the FF code, maybe on your own web site then the twist is worth keeping.
The "small C" thing was a distraction and something that won't appear in the revision. As mentioned earlier, I talk the way the dialog was written in this story and never gave the phrase a thought. It didn't occur to me that it would be such a speed bump and end up being the total focus for some people. I've seen the exact phrase used in published lesbian fiction, but still should have known better. I'm sorry so much energy was wasted on that single point.
When I first read "small C" I interpreted it not as you intended. I didn't even raise it as a neggy, just as an interesting observation - though a wrong one. That part of the thread did get a bit off topic and drew more attention to that phrase than it really deserved, considering the small part it played in the story as a whole, but it was quite educational for some of us.
My website hasn't been updated for a couple of years and after hearing that people didn't know about my other stories, I figure I better do something about it so people could get a better idea about what I write, if they're interested. The front page of my website has been updated to include some new pics and a link where people can ask me what happened to my shirt in that one picture. The front page is an example of where I'm going with the site. Hope you like the changes. I'm trying to gather up all my stories and post them to my FTP and website as soon as I can along with some descriptive stuff to make sure you Rom folks don't stumble across my hardcore Hum, Blackmail and other codes that tend to squick.
The pictures should be bigger, so we can better see your ... eyes.:-)
Tesseract
From: Altan
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:54:58 GMT
Hi Katie,
Thanks for your summary. I specifically appreciated your description of the "Lesbian Romance Story" format you were trying to achieve.
Having read that description, I don't think you should change too much in the story. In a now separate thread, I remarked on the issue of writing for your target audience. If you want to keep this a lesbian romance story, you should (IMHO) do so, and not try to make it into a "mainstream" sex story.
The only thing I would suggest is to have the description you gave here along with the story on the web site, for those readers who come to this story without familiarity with the format. I could imagine a subtitle "a lesbian romance story" or something like that which would be a hyperlink to a short description of the genre.
Thanks again for sharing this with us,
A.
http://www.asstr.org/~altan/
From: Katie McN
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 19:34:36 GMT
Hi Altan <altan1@bigfoot.com>,
On Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:54:58 GMT I noticed your interesting post:
Hi Katie,
Thanks for your summary. I specifically appreciated your description of the "Lesbian Romance Story" format you were trying to achieve.
Having read that description, I don't think you should change too much in the story. In a now separate thread, I remarked on the issue of writing for your target audience. If you want to keep this a lesbian romance story, you should (IMHO) do so, and not try to make it into a "mainstream" sex story.
The only thing I would suggest is to have the description you gave here along with the story on the web site, for those readers who come to this story without familiarity with the format. I could imagine a subtitle "a lesbian romance story" or something like that which would be a hyperlink to a short description of the genre.
Thanks again for sharing this with us,
I'm going to challenge myself and try to do a revision that maintains the conventions of lesbian romance and also is accessible to all other readers of erotica.
BTW one thing that I got from the general discussion here and from input
from some lesbian authors is how difficult it is to try to write
surprises in stories where codes or story conventions are given. My solution is to avoid using these in the stories on my website. I'm going to provide general guidance on truly squicky things and let the stories speak for themselves as much as I can. I know from prior experience that I will hear about it as I did when a story I wrote that appeared to be a guy stoke story turned out to be MM, but the alternative is to limit what I write and I can't do that.
It's Me Katie McN
<katie_mcn@earthlink.net>
Read My Stories at:
www.asstr.org/~Katie_McN/
From: cmsix
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 22:59:55 GMT
"Katie McN" <katie_mcn@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:44dnuu4jv7olohor068dishmfh4qcnnh6q@4ax.com ...
Hi Altan <altan1@bigfoot.com>,
On Mon, 2 Dec 2002 13:54:58 GMT I noticed your interesting post:
Hi Katie,
Thanks for your summary. I specifically appreciated your description of the "Lesbian Romance Story" format you were trying to achieve.
Having read that description, I don't think you should change too much in the story. In a now separate thread, I remarked on the issue of writing for your target audience. If you want to keep this a lesbian romance story, you should (IMHO) do so, and not try to make it into a "mainstream" sex story.
The only thing I would suggest is to have the description you gave here along with the story on the web site, for those readers who come to this story without familiarity with the format. I could imagine a subtitle "a lesbian romance story" or something like that which would be a hyperlink to a short description of the genre.
Thanks again for sharing this with us,
I'm going to challenge myself and try to do a revision that maintains the conventions of lesbian romance and also is accessible to all other readers of erotica.
BTW one thing that I got from the general discussion here and from input from some lesbian authors is how difficult it is to try to write surprises in stories where codes or story conventions are given. My solution is to avoid using these in the stories on my website. I'm going to provide general guidance on truly squicky things and let the stories speak for themselves as much as I can. I know from prior experience that I will hear about it as I did when a story I wrote that appeared to be a guy stoke story turned out to be MM, but the alternative is to limit what I write and I can't do that.
Another method is to have the surprise come in a part of the story that does not involve sex.
cmsix
-
It's Me Katie McN
<katie_mcn@earthlink.net>
Read My Stories at:
www.asstr.org/~Katie_McN/
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 13:13:52 -0600
On Sat, 30 Nov 2002 23:01:34 GMT, Katie McN <katie_mcn@earthlink.net> wrote:
The general lesbian romance strategy is that there are two people who will not seem right for each other at the start of the story, but who will be happily together on the last page and not usually before then. Regular readers know this and look for the pair immediately and then kick back to watch it all unfold. The more grief the better.
The characters almost always consist of a sensitive woman who is not coping well with real life and has all sorts of problems. She is frequently described as blonde, cuddly, beautiful and highly moral. The second character is almost always tall, dark, strong, able to easily handle life's problems, pragmatic and a person who has very little sensitivity. Regular readers may have a feeling for the characters and possibly "know what they look like" as soon as the come on stage. The romance author rides the fine line between the needs of character development and the regular reader's desire for the author to get on with the story.
The lesbian romance reader is most satisfied when the characters are different in almost every way. If it's possible to say "there is no way these two could ever get together", the lesbian romance reader (and regular romance reader as well) is happy as can be. She can't wait to see how it comes about.
This is an interesting formula, and it helps explain the style of story being written. The opposites-attract sort of romance works for all genders, not just lesbian. It seems to me that it often works out that while apparently opposites, they have a lot of internal secrets which are shared. Figuring out how to get them together so they can figure that part out is the trick.
Lesbian stories almost never have a strong or important male character unless the person is a villain and, even if there is a villain, a woman is frequently preferred in the role. Often there are no men in the story at all. The women in the story are always lesbians and this is never looked at as something out of the ordinary or something that would require explanation.
This part I've noticed. Romances aren't filled with a lot of irrelevant characters. It isn't quite like real life, but it doesn't matter because it lets the story flow nicely along its emotional pathways.
I also did a few things that I shouldn't when I relied on the conventions of the genre to cover points I should have made clear myself. For example, the dead person would be a woman and Libby would be a lesbian by definition. Even though this wouldn't confuse a regular lesbian reader, I realize that I should have provided this information in the story.
It was vaguely suggested, but relevant only in that Libby's attraction for Rae only works easily if Libby is a lesbian, or bi.
I fell in love with the idea that the plumber being a woman would be a surprise. Eye mentioned that no one familiar with the genre would be surprised and since codes are used with posted stories, no one else would be either unless I failed to indicate the type of story. This caused a bunch of story problems for a very limited benefit, I might still try to overcome the resulting issues if I can, but could just cut the surprise out of the story. At least two of the writing books I've read say that if one falls in love with something, it should be chopped out of the story. We shall see if this makes the next cut.
It is a cute element but the surprise is muted by all the clues. I like it, but it did go on a bit long under the circumstances. One change which would make it stretch out more, but would change Rae a lot (and maybe push it into another sort of cliche), would be to make Rae "Ray" in Libby's hearing. If Rae has smaller breasts, so that going braless is more natural than with D cups (for someone doing athletic activities the bra support is more than decoration), the surprise might survive "Ray" getting uncovered for work.
Doing that, you avoid saying "the plumber" all the time, and Libby has to guess that she's a woman, not have it spelled out immediately by the unavoidable visual clue of her breasts.
A negative of going that way is that the manly-looking lesbian butch sort is a stereotype, and the fact that some women really do look like that isn't going to stop readers from pointing that out. If presented well, though, I think it would still work out nicely.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Naive
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 14:56:40 GMT
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
Katie McN's guidelines:
What does everyone think of a lesbian romance story? I'd also like any suggestions for improving the story or my writing, so all comments are welcome.
Sorry this is my first attempt at entering into the Tank so excuse me if I don't do it right. I decided to try one of the older still to be critiqued, so I could see what others had to say and possibly how best to say things.
As to the two positive things. Well first, I will have to say that you set the scene nicely. Just the right touch of ambiance to make you feel the place. And, unlike some of the others I feel the subtle way you set the voice for Rae was quite clever: leaving out any specific traits but letting us know that Libby easily mistook her voice for a man before seeing her face. Also, Roe's crisp no nonsense no flack way of speaking. Second, the touches of personal information that give a beginning depth to the characters was also nice it gave the feeling that something more was waiting to be told.
But there in lies my problem with the story. I'm not sure that I would classify this as a true romance story. It feels more of the boy meets girl jumps into bed type to me. I guess my main suggestion would be to give us a little more of the characters. When Rae speaks of her past she lacks or doesn't give us any emotion she seems two dimensional because we never get to know her except through the POV character Libby, thus robbing us of the voice and possible real depth that tough Rae most likely has hidden inside. Which is the spark that Libby must see to fall for her.
When the characters are siting in the kitchen eating lunch it was passed over like it never meant anything but that was our first real chance to see into the characters with their interactions. But, it's just skipped. What happened in the kitchen to give Rae the impression that Libby was hot and ready for her? What subtle signs was Libby unconsciously giving off that made Rae jump at the chance.
The main thing though that I think is missing is the touch of romance. The internal connection that makes it more than just a night of lust. Where was the tender moment in bed when Libby remembered her lost love? Where was the depth of Rae to comfort and bring her in, sharing her own losses and feelings? I guess the "click" is missing. Something feels like it's waiting to happen in the story some real connection with the characters that we never see and that magic is what we're begging for. It's right there waiting to be touched, but then it's over and nothing flows. After reading it I feel like I want something more ... guess that's more then you want to know ...
Sorry I can't help with grammar or anything like that because I lack all skill at editing, but I did like the story I just wish there was more of it - well more spark and connection, and less lust. Hope this helps. Hope this is kind of what you wanted, but I probably should have picked another to start on: I'm a hopeless romantic =)
Naive
No quote yet ...
~place in quote here~
http://www.asstr.org/~naive/
From: Katie McN
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 15:27:46 GMT
Hi Naive!
shattered_mind@nospam.hotmail.com (Naive),
Thanks for your comments on my story. I'm glad you liked the story and agree with most of your thoughts.
Many authors have a problem where they include too much detail. They try to help the reader and appear to think the reader can't do much to support his or her side of the story process. I seem to have the reverse of this problem and expect the reader to develop my characters to their specifications and expectations.
Frequently people say that my stories don't include enough detail and end too soon. I don't know if I can do anything about this, but hope to improve and appreciate your suggestions in this area. I still have not completed the revision to this story and may try to expand the coverage of my characters and other parts of the story. We shall see what happens. ;-)
Thanks for you input.
MK
On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 14:56:40 GMT I noticed your interesting post:
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
Katie McN's guidelines:
What does everyone think of a lesbian romance story? I'd also like any suggestions for improving the story or my writing, so all comments are welcome.
- -
Sorry this is my first attempt at entering into the Tank so excuse me if I don't do it right. I decided to try one of the older still to be critiqued, so I could see what others had to say and possibly how best to say things.
As to the two positive things. Well first, I will have to say that you set the scene nicely. Just the right touch of ambiance to make you feel the place. And, unlike some of the others I feel the subtle way you set the voice for Rae was quite clever: leaving out any specific traits but letting us know that Libby easily mistook her voice for a man before seeing her face. Also, Roe's crisp no nonsense no flack way of speaking. Second, the touches of personal information that give a beginning depth to the characters was also nice it gave the feeling that something more was waiting to be told.
But there in lies my problem with the story. I'm not sure that I would classify this as a true romance story. It feels more of the boy meets girl jumps into bed type to me. I guess my main suggestion would be to give us a little more of the characters. When Rae speaks of her past she lacks or doesn't give us any emotion she seems two dimensional because we never get to know her except through the POV character Libby, thus robbing us of the voice and possible real depth that tough Rae most likely has hidden inside. Which is the spark that Libby must see to fall for her.
When the characters are siting in the kitchen eating lunch it was passed over like it never meant anything but that was our first real chance to see into the characters with their interactions. But, it's just skipped. What happened in the kitchen to give Rae the impression that Libby was hot and ready for her? What subtle signs was Libby unconsciously giving off that made Rae jump at the chance.
The main thing though that I think is missing is the touch of romance. The internal connection that makes it more than just a night of lust. Where was the tender moment in bed when Libby remembered her lost love? Where was the depth of Rae to comfort and bring her in, sharing her own losses and feelings? I guess the "click" is missing. Something feels like it's waiting to happen in the story some real connection with the characters that we never see and that magic is what we're begging for. It's right there waiting to be touched, but then it's over and nothing flows. After reading it I feel like I want something more ... guess that's more then you want to know ...
Sorry I can't help with grammar or anything like that because I lack all skill at editing, but I did like the story I just wish there was more of it - well more spark and connection, and less lust. Hope this helps. Hope this is kind of what you wanted, but I probably should have picked another to start on: I'm a hopeless romantic =)
Naive
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No quote yet ...
~place in quote here~
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http://www.asstr.org/~naive/
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It's Me! Katie McN
<katie@katie-mcnNOSPAM.com>
Read My Stories at:
www.katie-mcn.com
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From: cmsix
Re: Winter Storm, by Katie McN
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:03:11 GMT
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote in message news:uu4g45aie3mj47@news.supernews.com ...
Finding two things I liked about this was easy. First I liked the first half and next I liked the second half. Katie put a decidedly new twist on this "old standard". Talent. The things a talented author can do to a familiar plot line are always enjoyable.
I was also very happy to see Katie portray a romance in straight forward language that even a man can understand.
I'm glad I'm getting in one of the first replies. There is nothing of substance I can suggest to improve the story because I'm just not good enough.
When I let NotPad read it to me after I read it twice myself I did hear a her where I think I should have heard a here.
"Well, you never know. Out her in the country. No one around."
Also in this paragraph:
"Oh my god, Rae. What was that all about?" Libby snuggled in Rae's arms and the two women cuddled in the queen size bed. Rae touched the scar on the tall woman's forearm and was reminded about Rae's past. It didn't seem to matter anymore.
I believe the third Rae should have been a Libby.
Of course these are insignificant but I did need two things to say and those are the only imperfections I could find.
cmsix