Comments on A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76.
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From: meme misspelt
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 01:17:16 GMT
Desdmona22 wrote:
This week's submission is part of an evolving series. The author feels this
part 3 can stand alone and thus wanted to submit it to the Fish Tank. The story
is 7,637 words in length therefore I will be posting it in two parts. Same Fish
Tank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 things to improve
3) Try not to repeat
'kay. First I should say that this is prolly not my favorite kind of
story in general, and I don't want to be too hard on it, and I do want
this to be taken as CONstructive criticism, not destructive, or
discouraging. I may sorta think I know what I'm doing now, but you
should see some of my early efforts. (Um, no, actually, you shouldn't!)
Positive:
1. I liked the interrupted cunnilingus lesson - one thing I really like
in erotica is a sort of ebb and flow, getting the reader all het up,
then cooling down a little bit, then heating up again. I thought this
was about the sexiest scene in the story, and the fact that it was
interrupted didn't detract at all from that for me.
2. I thought a lot of the dialog was well-constructed, as far as "he
said, I replied, I shrugged,she asked" etc. It didn't get all Tom
Swifty, I didn't find it obtrusive but I noted and appreciated the
variety, I never had any trouble telling who was speaking. With four
people crammed in one bed, that's an accomplishment, to my mind. I
liked the "DE3" bit, too - we always pronounced it Diffy-Queue. It
made me chuckle.
Negative:
1. Grammer and spelling were major bugaboos. Some were obviously typos
that would have benefitted from an attentive read-trhough, some, like
the lay/lie confusion, seem things that the author isn't comfortable
with. (Or that the author is having the first person narrator get wrong
for deliberate character effect, but in this case that didn't work very
well for me.)
2. I had trouble with the characterization, or lack thereof - honestly,
if it hadn't been in the Fishtank, I probably would have given up before
I got to the second part. I definitely felt at a disadvantage not
having read the series previously, and I'm not sure how much that's to
blame - I didn't come to the story with a sense of the characters, but
I didn't pick up much of one, either. Everybody seemed to like beer and
sex, which is fine, but I didn't get much of a sense of who the people
were (I liked the idea of the scene where Kyra and the narrator try to
relate without sex, but in practice, it was so telescoped that I knew it
worked for them, but not really why.) We're told the narrator would
trust John with his life - though he'll bang his girlfriend - but we
don't know why. I don't think that it helped that the two main female
characters both have K*r*a names - I'd usually steer clear of that
m'self, unless I was deliberately trying to suggest confusion between
the characters.
Obviously my criticism reveals a lot of my own biases - I like stroke
stories, sure, but I find them much hotter if I have more emotional
stake in one or more of the characters. And I do notice, and am
bothered by, technical writing issues. YMMV.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:14:33 -0600
On 14 Jan 2002 17:48:25 GMT, desdmona22@aol.com (Desdmona22) wrote:
This week's submission is part of an evolving series. The author feels this
part 3 can stand alone and thus wanted to submit it to the Fish Tank. The story
is 7,637 words in length therefore I will be posting it in two parts. Same Fish
Tank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 things to improve
3) Try not to repeat
First, one instant negative, but not one I want to count: Krista's
house seems to be a ways from college when they go there, and it seems
a bit odd. The situation with Kyra and her college (a different one?)
is also a bit confusing. Maybe it is just me, but it would make a bit
more sense if Kyra had simply gone home for a week or something like
that, rather than attend a different campus in a different city. I
just don't quite see (not having read the other stories) how this
relationship even got going as far as it did with a 2 hour trip in the
way.
I will count that the trip transition seemed abrupt. The length of
the story gives room for some conversation during the trip. Some of
the stuff on arrival might be hashed over then, rather than at the
party. It is also not so clear that there is a birthday going on (or
even if there really is one, except that the party makes sense as that
sort of thing). Some of the other scene changes are also a bit rough,
but that particular one stands out.
The characters don't seem well detailed or differentiated. I like
somewhat generic people, that is sometimes fine especially in a
shorter story, or one with only two people involved sexually. The
cast at the party and in bed is big enough to make a few more details
helpful.
It might just be me, but I tend to notice differences between
lovers, and especially do so when I have more than one at once. It is
only natural to take some note of the differences.
Someone else commented on names, but that is something else to
consider. Nothing wrong with similar names, that is a hazard in real
life, but you need to make some issue of other differences. Eye
color, height, voice, something else other than the name which makes
them different. It does seem to me that Krista isn't just a sex
partner - not by the intro - but maybe I'm wrong. It just seems
that she should show a bit more affection to Jon, not just sexual
interest, when they get together again. OK, maybe that isn't
essential in a college affair, but I seem to recall saying "Love you"
a few times here and there even in friendly sexual flings.
Positive stuff: A nice bit of college adventurism. The casual
relationship thing is handled well, and there is some feeling for the
entire school situation, not just the relationships. The dialog
reinforces that, seeming to fit the situation just fine.
The tale seems to be a setup (with some nice sex bits along the way)
for a flashy foursome scene. The action, when it gets going, is
pretty hot and heavy. Shows some nice semi-slutty behavior too.
Last thing: as an advocate for changing the image of sluts,
especially as the boys seem to avoid the title even though they do it
just as much as the girls, it might be nice to have some line in there
saying "You aren't a slut, you just like sex, that's only natural."
Or something similar, the sort of free-spirit defense which I liked to
use. After all, my girlfriends weren't sluts no matter how many
people they slept with :-)
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/
For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Mat Twassel
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: 16 Jan 2002 16:19:40 GMT
Hm, two responses so far, and they've said pretty much what I would say.
The dialogue in places seems to show you know these people. The style is often
appropriate to the characters. Lots of really good dialogue. The style, too,
seems appropriate to the characters, but often the style is intrusively soft,
inexact, or difficult.
An example of this wishy-washy prose shows up right away:
It was the following Wednesday and I had just gotten out of my night
class. I told John and Krista that I'd meet them at one of the bars
near campus after my class and I was walking over as promised. <
Not horrible, but too bland. The Wednesday following what? The passage is
softened by being inexact (one of the bars) and repititious (after class).
This might give us a mood, show us a character, but it also is a bit of a put
off. I recommend you streamline a little. It's probably more important to
tell the story than to have the prose give us secondary clues to mood and
character. So work on sharpening. Maybe something like this:
After night class I was walking over to the Rathskellar, one of the bars near
campus, to meet John and Krista.
Another quick example:
I thought about Kyra as I walked, she had gone home to her apartment
in a city 2 hours from my campus and without a car, she may as well
have lived across the continent. <
The main problem here is it's a little confusing who doesn't have a car.
I thought about Kyra as I walked. Her apartment in the city was a two hour
drive from campus - if I'd had a car.
I liked the first half of the story much more than the second half. The party
had potential, but the game didn't seem to get anywhere - not so different from
the sex which followed. Maybe there was too much, or more likely it was that
too much was too mechanical. Sex was the only point of it. I recommend taking a
look at the long sex scene in Vinnie Tesla's "Not a Story about Andrew" for an
example of how a long sex scene can work. Make sure each part is vital. Build
to something. Tease. And unless your point is that the players during sex have
no personality, somehow you have to make them real even while they're having
sex. This foursome should have been great. You've given us a good map of the
surface, so I know you see it. But when I look at your map, mostly what I see
is a map.
I really feel you have a story underneath here and characters underneath here.
I really wish I could help you get it out. Here's a thought, an experiment:
Take six things from the sex scene, the best six things. List them. Images,
sensations. In sentences. In fragments. Whatever. Take us to that bedroom
door. Then give us the six special things. Bam. Bam. Bam bam bam. Bam.
Optionally one short sentence to summarize. And move on.
- Mat Twassel
From: Gary Jordan
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: 17 Jan 2002 05:18:18 GMT
By now, everyone should recognize that it's Desdmona who says:
Same Fish Tank guidelines apply:
There are only four responses and I'm already too late. Most of my points have
been made..
1) 2 positive comments
The Rathskeller. I'm assuming this is an on-campus pub. We had one at the
University of Florida in days of yore - they served 3.2% (three-two) beer and
didn't check IDs as closely as they ought. I think they spelled it Ratskeller,
or maybe it was just that we called it the Rat Cellar. It brung back memories,
either way.
2. Long distance relationships. Seems to be one starting. I had one. The
bad parts are the pits. The good parts are that sometimes absence does make
the heart grow fonder, and reacquainting after separation can be like falling
in love all over. Again, its a memory thing. I like stories that stir
pleasant memories.
2) 2 things to improve
3) Try not to repeat
1. The few thoughts that I had have been covered.
2. Ummmmmm. (Why do you think I put my stories in the fish tank? If I could
improve yours, I'd write better!)
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners never die. They spend time in sunken tubs."
http://www.asstr.org/~gary/
http://www.asstr.org/~gary/Clitorides/
http://www.asstr.org/~gary/ShonRichards/
http://www.asstr.org/spotlight.html
http://www.storiesonline.net/
From: Desdmona
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: 17 Jan 2002 14:38:51 GMT
A Return to College, Part 3
By RocketBlast 76
Hiya RB!
First things first, even though one of the guidelines is not to repeat, I think
sometimes, knowing that several readers have the same thoughts after reading
something you've written can add credence. So I'm going to reaffirm a few
comments and then I'll go on with other comments.
I agree with Meme about several things, especially the name thing. In real
life, people have similar names, even identical ones, but in real life, in a
foursome, you're not relying on their names to identify them ... in real life,
you have all the other characteristics that make each person unique. So
something as simple as Krista and Kyra or John and Jay can be very distracting
when reading and trying to decipher who is who. Another thing may be just the
lack of characterization, as was mentioned. If each person had been more
clearly characterized, then the name similarity may go unnoticed. I'm wondering
if in the previous parts to the story (not part of the FishTank) you described
the physical attributes of each character and thought it wasn't necessary to do
so again. Because this story is a long one, and even longer with multiple
parts, I think it would be fine to at least allude to physical characteristics
again. Even if it's something like, "Krista's blue eyes sparkled at the mention
of her party!" And throwing in a few personality traits would also help to
take away the generic feel to the four people.
The other stumbling block is typos. We all make them, every last one of us.
That's why it's a good thing to proofread carefully, or better yet have someone
you trust do it for you. There were so many double ll's, double ii's and double
ee's that at one point I started to giggle. You never want the typos to become
the story - many readers will stop reading, unable to see the story's worth
because of the mistakes.
Meme and I must really be on the same wavelength on this one because I too
thought the cunnilingus teaching was extremely sexy. I wasn't bothered by the
interruption. In fact, I was teased by it. (Yummy!) But darn it, I wanted to
get back to it and not just by talking about it. Maybe in the next installment?
I like the glimpse into college life. It's fun, free, uninhibited, and
universal. The party at Krista's has some interesting spots in it, but it
almost seems like they played one game and then the party was over. Maybe you
could add some party happenings, like drinking games, spilled food, witty
conversations, or music mistakes. Something that makes the party come alive. (I
really liked Kyra's response to the unwanted suitor)
I found a couple of things in the sex scene to be really erotic: When John's
cum dribbles on Jay ... it's a perfect way to bring in a component of M/M
without squicking anyone averse to that. I think the taboo aspect of it is
what made it erotic for me. I also really liked, "I pulled her thong to the
side and slid my tongue into her wettening slit." I realize "wettening"
probably isn't a real word, but I like it anyway. I especially liked it because
she didn't have a sopping, wet pussy just at the mere mention of sex. She
became wet with activity. Very real, very sexy! I also find it very erotic that
instead of just yanking down the panties, he went through the side. That could
just be a favorite of mine ... slipping in through the side, not yet committing
to full disclosure, teasingly, tauntingly, working his way in. <ahem> Sorry I
was distracted for a second.
Anyway, I think you have the workings of a really great foursome story. I'll be
very interested in seeing a rewrite if that's what you choose to do.
Thanks RB for allowing us this chance!
Des
From: Father Ignatius
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:34:19 +0200
"Desdmona22" <desdmona22@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020114124825.19215.00001036@mb-mg.aol.com ...
This week's submission is part of an evolving series. The author feels
this
part 3 can stand alone and thus wanted to submit it to the Fish Tank. The
story
is 7,637 words in length therefore I will be posting it in two parts. Same
Fish
Tank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 things to improve
3) Try not to repeat
***********************************************
A Return to College, Part 3
By RocketBlast 76
Been vacillating for days about whether or not to post, cuz I didn't finish
it and shan't. Oh, well, here goes.
2 positive comments
1) You can write. You are articulate. You can do this. So don't get
discouraged now.
2) Hey, maths geek stuff. My bruddah. That means you set the stroke in
some sort of a context, which I happen to like. It's the way out of stroke
and into storytelling, which I happen to like.
2 things to improve
1) Write tighter. Like, a lot tighter. I'd suggest doing a Version 2 as
an exercise, in half the words. Figure out what you want to say before you
start saying it.
2) Have someone else read it so you can find out what the reader
misunderstands about your limpid prose. It;s a very humbling experience,
take it from one who knows, and it doesn't seem to get any better. What
does get better is the number of readers and how much they like your story.
"Father Ignatius" <FatherIgnatius@hotmail.com>
http://www.asstr.org/~FatherIgnatius/Stories.html
The Web's Best Illustrated Adult Fiction is at http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: RocketBlast_76
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 15:57:18 -0500
On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 01:17:16 GMT, meme misspelt <meem17@mwmw.com>
wrote:
Desdmona22 wrote:
This week's submission is part of an evolving series. The author feels this
part 3 can stand alone and thus wanted to submit it to the Fish Tank. The story
is 7,637 words in length therefore I will be posting it in two parts. Same Fish
Tank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 things to improve
3) Try not to repeat
'kay. First I should say that this is prolly not my favorite kind of
story in general, and I don't want to be too hard on it, and I do want
this to be taken as CONstructive criticism, not destructive, or
discouraging. I may sorta think I know what I'm doing now, but you
should see some of my early efforts. (Um, no, actually, you shouldn't!)
No worries.
Positive:
1. I liked the interrupted cunnilingus lesson - one thing I really like
in erotica is a sort of ebb and flow, getting the reader all het up,
then cooling down a little bit, then heating up again. I thought this
was about the sexiest scene in the story, and the fact that it was
interrupted didn't detract at all from that for me.
I thought it'd be a good lead in for the next part of the story
2. I thought a lot of the dialog was well-constructed, as far as "he
said, I replied, I shrugged,she asked" etc. It didn't get all Tom
Swifty, I didn't find it obtrusive but I noted and appreciated the
variety, I never had any trouble telling who was speaking. With four
people crammed in one bed, that's an accomplishment, to my mind. I
liked the "DE3" bit, too - we always pronounced it Diffy-Queue. It
made me chuckle.
I'm glad you mentioned, "Diffy-Queue", as I was struggling as to
figure out how to write it. I had to settle for DE3 because I was
getting too hung up on it and it was really a small detail. Thanks!
Negative:
1. Grammer and spelling were major bugaboos. Some were obviously typos
that would have benefitted from an attentive read-trhough, some, like
the lay/lie confusion, seem things that the author isn't comfortable
with. (Or that the author is having the first person narrator get wrong
for deliberate character effect, but in this case that didn't work very
well for me.)
I wish I could say it was character-building, but the real reason is
related to how I've always done things. I normally write something
(paper, story, presentation) and never read it again, otherwise I
start to get very nit-picky ... to an extreme fault. I *used* to
trust the spell checker in my news reader, but I think I may have to
use an alternate one, as many people mentioned these errors. I will
clean it up. In terms of "lay" and "lie", I just used whatever came
natural to me, which is a cop out, of course, but I think may more
closely reflect an "average Joe's" grasp of the intricacies (sp?) of
the English language.
2. I had trouble with the characterization, or lack thereof - honestly,
if it hadn't been in the Fishtank, I probably would have given up before
I got to the second part. I definitely felt at a disadvantage not
having read the series previously, and I'm not sure how much that's to
blame - I didn't come to the story with a sense of the characters, but
I didn't pick up much of one, either. Everybody seemed to like beer and
sex, which is fine, but I didn't get much of a sense of who the people
were (I liked the idea of the scene where Kyra and the narrator try to
relate without sex, but in practice, it was so telescoped that I knew it
worked for them, but not really why.) We're told the narrator would
trust John with his life - though he'll bang his girlfriend - but we
don't know why. I don't think that it helped that the two main female
characters both have K*r*a names - I'd usually steer clear of that
m'self, unless I was deliberately trying to suggest confusion between
the characters.
I think the character development was an issue in reading this part
alone. As the author, I retrospectively believe that I am too biased
to make the assertion that there is enoguh character development.
After all, I know who everyone is.
The names were derived from my actual college friends, all of whom had
strikingly similar names. Again, I point to my bias as the author,
though I certainly concede to your point.
Obviously my criticism reveals a lot of my own biases - I like stroke
stories, sure, but I find them much hotter if I have more emotional
stake in one or more of the characters. And I do notice, and am
bothered by, technical writing issues. YMMV.
I would like to thank you very much for your comments. They will serve
me well in further refining this story and help to pre-refine my
future endeavours.
Thanks,
RB76
From: PleaseCain
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: 19 Jan 2002 00:34:12 GMT
The details are good - keep all of those. Plenty of sharp observations that
draw us into the scenes.
Also, the friendship of Jay and John/Jon (the spelling changes throughout the
story) rings true to me. I've known guys like John.
For suggestions, I return again to your details: do keep them in, but rework or
restate them more naturally within the narrative, ex., instead of pinpointing
exact outdoor temperatures (which could make for useful characterization if the
narrator were an anal-retentive or a meteorologist-in-training), couldn't it be
"pleasant walking" or even "just perfect," etc. I'm using the temperatures as
examples, but it applies elsewhere. The entire first paragraph, for instance,
could be rewritten more succinctly and naturally:
A. It was the following Wednesday and I had just gotten out of my night
class. I told John and Krista that I'd meet them at one of the bars
near campus after my class and I was walking over as promised. The
night was a cool 65 degrees and there was a breeze blowing across the
campus. I have always appreciated the wind, for reasons that I do not
know, and as I walked to the Rathskellar I had a contented grin on my
face.
B. After night class the following Wednesday, I was walking to meet
John and Krista at the Rathskellar near campus. It was the kind of cool
breezy evening that always brings a smile to my face.
There are a hundred ways of wording it, but you get the picture. The dialogue
too would benefit from this kind of streamlining, where in places it feels a
bit awkward or stilted.
Thanks for letting us read this. We boys want more Kyra. In fact, those
lessons they keep talking about together would make a great story.
Cain
From: RocketBlast_76
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:57:31 -0500
On 19 Jan 2002 00:34:12 GMT, pleasecain@aol.com (PleaseCain) wrote:
The details are good - keep all of those. Plenty of sharp observations that
draw us into the scenes.
Also, the friendship of Jay and John/Jon (the spelling changes throughout the
story) rings true to me. I've known guys like John.
I also noticed, too late, that I kept changing the spelling of Jon's
name. Chalk it up to inattention to detail, an arena that I vastly
need to improve.
For suggestions, I return again to your details: do keep them in, but rework or
restate them more naturally within the narrative, ex., instead of pinpointing
exact outdoor temperatures (which could make for useful characterization if the
narrator were an anal-retentive or a meteorologist-in-training), couldn't it be
"pleasant walking" or even "just perfect," etc. I'm using the temperatures as
examples, but it applies elsewhere. The entire first paragraph, for instance,
could be rewritten more succinctly and naturally:
A. It was the following Wednesday and I had just gotten out of my night
class. I told John and Krista that I'd meet them at one of the bars
near campus after my class and I was walking over as promised. The
night was a cool 65 degrees and there was a breeze blowing across the
campus. I have always appreciated the wind, for reasons that I do not
know, and as I walked to the Rathskellar I had a contented grin on my
face.
B. After night class the following Wednesday, I was walking to meet
John and Krista at the Rathskellar near campus. It was the kind of cool
breezy evening that always brings a smile to my face.
There are a hundred ways of wording it, but you get the picture. The dialogue
too would benefit from this kind of streamlining, where in places it feels a
bit awkward or stilted.
I tend to be very precise. I think loosening up is a good idea, as you
suggested. I think I tend to be precise, especially during the sex
scenes, because I want to convey an exact image. Maybe this spills
over into other aspects of the story which detract from the flow,
again, as you observed.
Thank you. Your comments have made me introspective and I like doing
that. Kudos to you!
Thanks for letting us read this. We boys want more Kyra. In fact, those
lessons they keep talking about together would make a great story.
Cain
Believe you me, everything about the person whom Kyra is based made me
compose this entire series. She knows a lot of stuff and, to give you
a sneak preview, she starts getting into experimenting ... a lot.
Thanks again!
RB76
From: RocketBlast_76
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:07:42 -0500
On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:14:33 -0600, Jeff Zephyr <jeffzeph@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On 14 Jan 2002 17:48:25 GMT, desdmona22@aol.com (Desdmona22) wrote:
This week's submission is part of an evolving series. The author feels this
part 3 can stand alone and thus wanted to submit it to the Fish Tank. The story
is 7,637 words in length therefore I will be posting it in two parts. Same Fish
Tank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 things to improve
3) Try not to repeat
First, one instant negative, but not one I want to count: Krista's
house seems to be a ways from college when they go there, and it seems
a bit odd. The situation with Kyra and her college (a different one?)
is also a bit confusing. Maybe it is just me, but it would make a bit
more sense if Kyra had simply gone home for a week or something like
that, rather than attend a different campus in a different city. I
just don't quite see (not having read the other stories) how this
relationship even got going as far as it did with a 2 hour trip in the
way.
Krista's house was near the campus, it was Kyra who live a ways
away ... I guess I didn't explain that well enough. BTW, I don't mind
more than two criticisms when they're constructive ...
I will count that the trip transition seemed abrupt. The length of
the story gives room for some conversation during the trip. Some of
the stuff on arrival might be hashed over then, rather than at the
party. It is also not so clear that there is a birthday going on (or
even if there really is one, except that the party makes sense as that
sort of thing). Some of the other scene changes are also a bit rough,
but that particular one stands out.
It was a party for Krista's birthday, but not a "birthday party." Only
her close friends new it was her birthday. Again, I should have
explained this more clearly.
The characters don't seem well detailed or differentiated. I like
somewhat generic people, that is sometimes fine especially in a
shorter story, or one with only two people involved sexually. The
cast at the party and in bed is big enough to make a few more details
helpful.
It might just be me, but I tend to notice differences between
lovers, and especially do so when I have more than one at once. It is
only natural to take some note of the differences.
Someone else commented on names, but that is something else to
consider. Nothing wrong with similar names, that is a hazard in real
life, but you need to make some issue of other differences. Eye
color, height, voice, something else other than the name which makes
them different. It does seem to me that Krista isn't just a sex
partner - not by the intro - but maybe I'm wrong. It just seems
that she should show a bit more affection to Jon, not just sexual
interest, when they get together again. OK, maybe that isn't
essential in a college affair, but I seem to recall saying "Love you"
a few times here and there even in friendly sexual flings.
Part one covered that. I think I was overly confident that this part
of the story could stand on it's own with too much confusion ...
Positive stuff: A nice bit of college adventurism. The casual
relationship thing is handled well, and there is some feeling for the
entire school situation, not just the relationships. The dialog
reinforces that, seeming to fit the situation just fine.
Thanks!
The tale seems to be a setup (with some nice sex bits along the way)
for a flashy foursome scene. The action, when it gets going, is
pretty hot and heavy. Shows some nice semi-slutty behavior too.
Last thing: as an advocate for changing the image of sluts,
especially as the boys seem to avoid the title even though they do it
just as much as the girls, it might be nice to have some line in there
saying "You aren't a slut, you just like sex, that's only natural."
Or something similar, the sort of free-spirit defense which I liked to
use. After all, my girlfriends weren't sluts no matter how many
people they slept with :-)
I think you are right. I try and avoid what I would term "verbally
bashing" women in intimate settings by calling them slut, whore,
bitch, etc. I may work your suggestion into the next part.
From: RocketBlast_76
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:18:26 -0500
I would like to make some general comments before going into specifics
with those who posted responses.
First off, thank you to everyone who submitted feedback. I appreciate
the time and effort you put into assisting me.
Secondly, thank you Desdmona for accepting it as a submission. I
didn't realize the story was as long as it turned out to be. I will be
sure to incorporate a word counter on future submissions. The longest
thing I ever wrote for fun before this was much shorter.
Retrospectively, I have two observations of my own work; I need to
review grammar and spelling more thoroughly and I need to take myself
out of the context of the author and look at it as a first time
reader.
On a more personal note, all of the stories I have written of this
nature have only ever be viewed by me before posting. I like throwing
caution to the wind. I am glad to have found a forum where others can
review my work and give feedback. A task often easier to do when the
reviewers are essentially anonymous.
Thank you all again!
RB76
From: dennyw
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 15:45:52 -0800
On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:18:26 -0500, RocketBlast_76@yahoo.com held
forth, saying:
Retrospectively, I have two observations of my own work; I need to
review grammar and spelling more thoroughly and I need to take myself
out of the context of the author and look at it as a first time
reader.
Good plan - but it's damned hard to do. You still know what you
meant to say, and so are likely not to notice the spots where your
words don't actually say what you meant.
IOW: find yourself a proofer - there's a page at ASSTR set up to help
writers find proofers (proofers never have much problem finding
writers with whom to work. <g>)
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: RocketBlast_76
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:28:42 -0500
On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:34:19 +0200, "Father Ignatius"
<FatherIgnatius@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Desdmona22" <desdmona22@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020114124825.19215.00001036@mb-mg.aol.com ...
This week's submission is part of an evolving series. The author feels
this
part 3 can stand alone and thus wanted to submit it to the Fish Tank. The
story
is 7,637 words in length therefore I will be posting it in two parts. Same
Fish
Tank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 things to improve
3) Try not to repeat
***********************************************
A Return to College, Part 3
By RocketBlast 76
Been vacillating for days about whether or not to post, cuz I didn't finish
it and shan't. Oh, well, here goes.
I can appreciate this, especially the honesty. I think it speaks to
your first comment on improvements.
2 positive comments
1) You can write. You are articulate. You can do this. So don't get
discouraged now.
Thank you for the encouragement.
2) Hey, maths geek stuff. My bruddah. That means you set the stroke in
some sort of a context, which I happen to like. It's the way out of stroke
and into storytelling, which I happen to like.
I used to be in Physics, hence the math. Gota give the nerds a chance
to have some fun, I say.
2 things to improve
1) Write tighter. Like, a lot tighter. I'd suggest doing a Version 2 as
an exercise, in half the words. Figure out what you want to say before you
start saying it.
I am not sure I understand what you mean by "Figure out what you want
to say ..." I know exactly what I want to say. I am interpreting this
to mean something like "Figure out what you want to say and then say
it in a way so that other people know what you are saying."
As far as writing more tightly. I admit that I tend to be long-winded.
The exercise you suggested may go a long way towards improving how
succinct my descriptions and dialogue are.
2) Have someone else read it so you can find out what the reader
misunderstands about your limpid prose. It;s a very humbling experience,
take it from one who knows, and it doesn't seem to get any better. What
does get better is the number of readers and how much they like your story.
As I understand limpid, it is synonymous with "clear". I guess I am
confused about what you mean.
So far I have found this whole process of writing, submitting and
reviewing to be humbling, but rightly and justly so.
Thanks for the feedback!
RB76
From: RocketBlast_76
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:33:47 -0500
On 17 Jan 2002 05:18:18 GMT, pjcocoa@aol.come.to.bed (Gary Jordan)
wrote:
By now, everyone should recognize that it's Desdmona who says:
Same Fish Tank guidelines apply:
There are only four responses and I'm already too late. Most of my points have
been made..
1) 2 positive comments
The Rathskeller. I'm assuming this is an on-campus pub. We had one at the
University of Florida in days of yore - they served 3.2% (three-two) beer and
didn't check IDs as closely as they ought. I think they spelled it Ratskeller,
or maybe it was just that we called it the Rat Cellar. It brung back memories,
either way.
I was recently back there, but their menu has gone too vegan for my
taste. I am glad it brought back memories (as it was kind of the point
of the story ...)
2. Long distance relationships. Seems to be one starting. I had one. The
bad parts are the pits. The good parts are that sometimes absence does make
the heart grow fonder, and reacquainting after separation can be like falling
in love all over. Again, its a memory thing. I like stories that stir
pleasant memories.
Yes they suck at the time, but I have found them to be sometimes
fruitful.
2) 2 things to improve
3) Try not to repeat
1. The few thoughts that I had have been covered.
No worries. repetition is the key. You have to repeatedly bang things
into my head somtimes. ;-)
2. Ummmmmm. (Why do you think I put my stories in the fish tank? If I could
improve yours, I'd write better!)
Thanks for the feedback!
RB76
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners never die. They spend time in sunken tubs."
http://www.asstr.org/~gary/
http://www.asstr.org/~gary/Clitorides/
http://www.asstr.org/~gary/ShonRichards/
http://www.asstr.org/spotlight.html
http://www.storiesonline.net/
From: RocketBlast_76
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:50:20 -0500
On 17 Jan 2002 14:38:51 GMT, desdmona22@aol.com (Desdmona22) wrote:
A Return to College, Part 3
By RocketBlast 76
Hiya RB!
First things first, even though one of the guidelines is not to repeat, I think
sometimes, knowing that several readers have the same thoughts after reading
something you've written can add credence. So I'm going to reaffirm a few
comments and then I'll go on with other comments.
I agree with Meme about several things, especially the name thing. In real
life, people have similar names, even identical ones, but in real life, in a
foursome, you're not relying on their names to identify them ... in real life,
you have all the other characteristics that make each person unique. So
something as simple as Krista and Kyra or John and Jay can be very distracting
when reading and trying to decipher who is who. Another thing may be just the
lack of characterization, as was mentioned. If each person had been more
clearly characterized, then the name similarity may go unnoticed. I'm wondering
if in the previous parts to the story (not part of the FishTank) you described
the physical attributes of each character and thought it wasn't necessary to do
so again. Because this story is a long one, and even longer with multiple
parts, I think it would be fine to at least allude to physical characteristics
again. Even if it's something like, "Krista's blue eyes sparkled at the mention
of her party!" And throwing in a few personality traits would also help to
take away the generic feel to the four people.
Upon reflection of what you and others have said, I feel that you are
right. Since I spent a lot of time describing the physical looks of
Kyra and Krista in part two, it seemed to me (at the time) to be
overly repetitive. But I have realized that I am not the best judge of
this, since I know what all the characters look like. Also, like
reading a good and then seeing it made into a movie, the visuals
presented often do not jive with the images you had created in your
head when you read the book. I tried to let the readers imagination
project the faces and bodies of those they find attractive into the
characters. However, as I stated before, I am not the best judge of
this and your suggestion has obvious merit. Thanks!
The other stumbling block is typos. We all make them, every last one of us.
That's why it's a good thing to proofread carefully, or better yet have someone
you trust do it for you. There were so many double ll's, double ii's and double
ee's that at one point I started to giggle. You never want the typos to become
the story - many readers will stop reading, unable to see the story's worth
because of the mistakes.
That's my bad. I'll be working on that in the future.
Meme and I must really be on the same wavelength on this one because I too
thought the cunnilingus teaching was extremely sexy. I wasn't bothered by the
interruption. In fact, I was teased by it. (Yummy!) But darn it, I wanted to
get back to it and not just by talking about it. Maybe in the next installment?
They're going to be coming. (I could not help the pun.)
I like the glimpse into college life. It's fun, free, uninhibited, and
universal. The party at Krista's has some interesting spots in it, but it
almost seems like they played one game and then the party was over. Maybe you
could add some party happenings, like drinking games, spilled food, witty
conversations, or music mistakes. Something that makes the party come alive. (I
really liked Kyra's response to the unwanted suitor)
Thanks (re: the suitor)! Again, I believe you are right. Though I may
have to start worrying about lengthening the story, something that
some people have suggested I not do. I may have to contract some other
things in the interest of, well, interest.
I found a couple of things in the sex scene to be really erotic: When John's
cum dribbles on Jay ... it's a perfect way to bring in a component of M/M
without squicking anyone averse to that. I think the taboo aspect of it is
what made it erotic for me. I also really liked, "I pulled her thong to the
side and slid my tongue into her wettening slit." I realize "wettening"
probably isn't a real word, but I like it anyway. I especially liked it because
she didn't have a sopping, wet pussy just at the mere mention of sex. She
became wet with activity. Very real, very sexy! I also find it very erotic that
instead of just yanking down the panties, he went through the side. That could
just be a favorite of mine ... slipping in through the side, not yet committing
to full disclosure, teasingly, tauntingly, working his way in. <ahem> Sorry I
was distracted for a second.
Well, if the description of it is making your mind wander, then I have
succeeded in some capacity. Yes, "wettening" is probably not a word,
but it seemed to convey the image I wanted. I hadn't thought of the
cum dribbling as being necessarily M/M, especially considering what
Kyra does with it, but I guess it does have that element.
Anyway, I think you have the workings of a really great foursome story. I'll be
very interested in seeing a rewrite if that's what you choose to do.
I will be re-writing it.
Thanks RB for allowing us this chance!
Des
No problem. Thanks for hosting the forum!
RB76
From: RocketBlast_76
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 17:01:01 -0500
I forgot to mention the size of the bed in the scene. Since it was in
Krista's house (and not in a dorm room) she had a king size bed.
Though I did mention that both Jon and Jay were "working" from the
sides of the bed for most of the time.
Good observation of a missing detail.
On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 01:17:16 GMT, meme misspelt <meem17@mwmw.com>
wrote:
Desdmona22 wrote:
This week's submission is part of an evolving series. The author feels this
part 3 can stand alone and thus wanted to submit it to the Fish Tank. The story
is 7,637 words in length therefore I will be posting it in two parts. Same Fish
Tank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 things to improve
3) Try not to repeat
'kay. First I should say that this is prolly not my favorite kind of
story in general, and I don't want to be too hard on it, and I do want
this to be taken as CONstructive criticism, not destructive, or
discouraging. I may sorta think I know what I'm doing now, but you
should see some of my early efforts. (Um, no, actually, you shouldn't!)
Positive:
1. I liked the interrupted cunnilingus lesson - one thing I really like
in erotica is a sort of ebb and flow, getting the reader all het up,
then cooling down a little bit, then heating up again. I thought this
was about the sexiest scene in the story, and the fact that it was
interrupted didn't detract at all from that for me.
2. I thought a lot of the dialog was well-constructed, as far as "he
said, I replied, I shrugged,she asked" etc. It didn't get all Tom
Swifty, I didn't find it obtrusive but I noted and appreciated the
variety, I never had any trouble telling who was speaking. With four
people crammed in one bed, that's an accomplishment, to my mind. I
liked the "DE3" bit, too - we always pronounced it Diffy-Queue. It
made me chuckle.
Negative:
1. Grammer and spelling were major bugaboos. Some were obviously typos
that would have benefitted from an attentive read-trhough, some, like
the lay/lie confusion, seem things that the author isn't comfortable
with. (Or that the author is having the first person narrator get wrong
for deliberate character effect, but in this case that didn't work very
well for me.)
2. I had trouble with the characterization, or lack thereof - honestly,
if it hadn't been in the Fishtank, I probably would have given up before
I got to the second part. I definitely felt at a disadvantage not
having read the series previously, and I'm not sure how much that's to
blame - I didn't come to the story with a sense of the characters, but
I didn't pick up much of one, either. Everybody seemed to like beer and
sex, which is fine, but I didn't get much of a sense of who the people
were (I liked the idea of the scene where Kyra and the narrator try to
relate without sex, but in practice, it was so telescoped that I knew it
worked for them, but not really why.) We're told the narrator would
trust John with his life - though he'll bang his girlfriend - but we
don't know why. I don't think that it helped that the two main female
characters both have K*r*a names - I'd usually steer clear of that
m'self, unless I was deliberately trying to suggest confusion between
the characters.
Obviously my criticism reveals a lot of my own biases - I like stroke
stories, sure, but I find them much hotter if I have more emotional
stake in one or more of the characters. And I do notice, and am
bothered by, technical writing issues. YMMV.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 19:40:06 -0600
On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:07:42 -0500, RocketBlast_76@yahoo.com wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:14:33 -0600, Jeff Zephyr <jeffzeph@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On 14 Jan 2002 17:48:25 GMT, desdmona22@aol.com (Desdmona22) wrote:
This week's submission is part of an evolving series. The author feels this
part 3 can stand alone and thus wanted to submit it to the Fish Tank. The story
is 7,637 words in length therefore I will be posting it in two parts. Same Fish
Tank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 things to improve
3) Try not to repeat
First, one instant negative, but not one I want to count: Krista's
house seems to be a ways from college when they go there, and it seems
a bit odd. The situation with Kyra and her college (a different one?)
is also a bit confusing. Maybe it is just me, but it would make a bit
more sense if Kyra had simply gone home for a week or something like
that, rather than attend a different campus in a different city. I
just don't quite see (not having read the other stories) how this
relationship even got going as far as it did with a 2 hour trip in the
way.
Krista's house was near the campus, it was Kyra who live a ways
away ... I guess I didn't explain that well enough. BTW, I don't mind
more than two criticisms when they're constructive ...
Near was ~20 minutes, which is maybe OK depending on traffic and
such but is further than I lived from college most of the time. It
was maybe 5 minutes, plus parking time :-) Anyway, long enough that I
could see a bit more going on with the trip.
Kyra's long-distane situation didn't seem clear, but maybe if I read
the prior chapters it might make more sense. It is hard, and maybe
not essential, in a serial with chapters to explain everything about
everyone in each part.
Someone else commented on names, but that is something else to
consider. Nothing wrong with similar names, that is a hazard in real
life, but you need to make some issue of other differences. Eye
color, height, voice, something else other than the name which makes
them different. It does seem to me that Krista isn't just a sex
partner - not by the intro - but maybe I'm wrong. It just seems
that she should show a bit more affection to Jon, not just sexual
interest, when they get together again. OK, maybe that isn't
essential in a college affair, but I seem to recall saying "Love you"
a few times here and there even in friendly sexual flings.
Part one covered that. I think I was overly confident that this part
of the story could stand on it's own with too much confusion ...
Repeating some details doesn't hurt. I know, you'll still know it
but I think that people do make repetitive comments, so it doesn't
hurt to have a little of that in the story.
Last thing: as an advocate for changing the image of sluts,
especially as the boys seem to avoid the title even though they do it
just as much as the girls, it might be nice to have some line in there
saying "You aren't a slut, you just like sex, that's only natural."
Or something similar, the sort of free-spirit defense which I liked to
use. After all, my girlfriends weren't sluts no matter how many
people they slept with :-)
I think you are right. I try and avoid what I would term "verbally
bashing" women in intimate settings by calling them slut, whore,
bitch, etc. I may work your suggestion into the next part.
I felt it was very unfair when my girlfriend would be called a slut
(rarely to her face even by other girls), whereas I, whose behavior in
terms of partners and situations wasn't much different, was OK, maybe
even just being a normal guy, going out on his slutty girlfriend in
compensation or something.
Anyway, a nice respectable college girl who likes sex just doesn't
seem like the sort to accept being a "slut" in a derogatory sense.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/
For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
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Comments on A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76.
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From: meme misspelt
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 01:17:16 GMT
Desdmona22 wrote:
'kay. First I should say that this is prolly not my favorite kind of story in general, and I don't want to be too hard on it, and I do want this to be taken as CONstructive criticism, not destructive, or discouraging. I may sorta think I know what I'm doing now, but you should see some of my early efforts. (Um, no, actually, you shouldn't!)
Positive:
1. I liked the interrupted cunnilingus lesson - one thing I really like in erotica is a sort of ebb and flow, getting the reader all het up, then cooling down a little bit, then heating up again. I thought this was about the sexiest scene in the story, and the fact that it was interrupted didn't detract at all from that for me.
2. I thought a lot of the dialog was well-constructed, as far as "he said, I replied, I shrugged,she asked" etc. It didn't get all Tom Swifty, I didn't find it obtrusive but I noted and appreciated the variety, I never had any trouble telling who was speaking. With four people crammed in one bed, that's an accomplishment, to my mind. I liked the "DE3" bit, too - we always pronounced it Diffy-Queue. It made me chuckle.
Negative:
1. Grammer and spelling were major bugaboos. Some were obviously typos that would have benefitted from an attentive read-trhough, some, like the lay/lie confusion, seem things that the author isn't comfortable with. (Or that the author is having the first person narrator get wrong for deliberate character effect, but in this case that didn't work very well for me.)
2. I had trouble with the characterization, or lack thereof - honestly, if it hadn't been in the Fishtank, I probably would have given up before I got to the second part. I definitely felt at a disadvantage not having read the series previously, and I'm not sure how much that's to blame - I didn't come to the story with a sense of the characters, but I didn't pick up much of one, either. Everybody seemed to like beer and sex, which is fine, but I didn't get much of a sense of who the people were (I liked the idea of the scene where Kyra and the narrator try to relate without sex, but in practice, it was so telescoped that I knew it worked for them, but not really why.) We're told the narrator would trust John with his life - though he'll bang his girlfriend - but we don't know why. I don't think that it helped that the two main female characters both have K*r*a names - I'd usually steer clear of that m'self, unless I was deliberately trying to suggest confusion between the characters.
Obviously my criticism reveals a lot of my own biases - I like stroke stories, sure, but I find them much hotter if I have more emotional stake in one or more of the characters. And I do notice, and am bothered by, technical writing issues. YMMV.
- Meme Misspelt
- http://www.asstr.org/~meme_misspelt/
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:14:33 -0600
On 14 Jan 2002 17:48:25 GMT, desdmona22@aol.com (Desdmona22) wrote:
First, one instant negative, but not one I want to count: Krista's house seems to be a ways from college when they go there, and it seems a bit odd. The situation with Kyra and her college (a different one?) is also a bit confusing. Maybe it is just me, but it would make a bit more sense if Kyra had simply gone home for a week or something like that, rather than attend a different campus in a different city. I just don't quite see (not having read the other stories) how this relationship even got going as far as it did with a 2 hour trip in the way.
I will count that the trip transition seemed abrupt. The length of the story gives room for some conversation during the trip. Some of the stuff on arrival might be hashed over then, rather than at the party. It is also not so clear that there is a birthday going on (or even if there really is one, except that the party makes sense as that sort of thing). Some of the other scene changes are also a bit rough, but that particular one stands out.
The characters don't seem well detailed or differentiated. I like somewhat generic people, that is sometimes fine especially in a shorter story, or one with only two people involved sexually. The cast at the party and in bed is big enough to make a few more details helpful.
It might just be me, but I tend to notice differences between lovers, and especially do so when I have more than one at once. It is only natural to take some note of the differences.
Someone else commented on names, but that is something else to consider. Nothing wrong with similar names, that is a hazard in real life, but you need to make some issue of other differences. Eye color, height, voice, something else other than the name which makes them different. It does seem to me that Krista isn't just a sex partner - not by the intro - but maybe I'm wrong. It just seems that she should show a bit more affection to Jon, not just sexual interest, when they get together again. OK, maybe that isn't essential in a college affair, but I seem to recall saying "Love you" a few times here and there even in friendly sexual flings.
Positive stuff: A nice bit of college adventurism. The casual relationship thing is handled well, and there is some feeling for the entire school situation, not just the relationships. The dialog reinforces that, seeming to fit the situation just fine.
The tale seems to be a setup (with some nice sex bits along the way) for a flashy foursome scene. The action, when it gets going, is pretty hot and heavy. Shows some nice semi-slutty behavior too.
Last thing: as an advocate for changing the image of sluts, especially as the boys seem to avoid the title even though they do it just as much as the girls, it might be nice to have some line in there saying "You aren't a slut, you just like sex, that's only natural." Or something similar, the sort of free-spirit defense which I liked to use. After all, my girlfriends weren't sluts no matter how many people they slept with :-)
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Mat Twassel
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: 16 Jan 2002 16:19:40 GMT
Hm, two responses so far, and they've said pretty much what I would say.
The dialogue in places seems to show you know these people. The style is often appropriate to the characters. Lots of really good dialogue. The style, too, seems appropriate to the characters, but often the style is intrusively soft, inexact, or difficult.
An example of this wishy-washy prose shows up right away:
class. I told John and Krista that I'd meet them at one of the bars near campus after my class and I was walking over as promised. <
Not horrible, but too bland. The Wednesday following what? The passage is softened by being inexact (one of the bars) and repititious (after class). This might give us a mood, show us a character, but it also is a bit of a put off. I recommend you streamline a little. It's probably more important to tell the story than to have the prose give us secondary clues to mood and character. So work on sharpening. Maybe something like this:
After night class I was walking over to the Rathskellar, one of the bars near campus, to meet John and Krista.
Another quick example:
in a city 2 hours from my campus and without a car, she may as well have lived across the continent. <
The main problem here is it's a little confusing who doesn't have a car.
I thought about Kyra as I walked. Her apartment in the city was a two hour drive from campus - if I'd had a car.
I liked the first half of the story much more than the second half. The party had potential, but the game didn't seem to get anywhere - not so different from the sex which followed. Maybe there was too much, or more likely it was that too much was too mechanical. Sex was the only point of it. I recommend taking a look at the long sex scene in Vinnie Tesla's "Not a Story about Andrew" for an example of how a long sex scene can work. Make sure each part is vital. Build to something. Tease. And unless your point is that the players during sex have no personality, somehow you have to make them real even while they're having sex. This foursome should have been great. You've given us a good map of the surface, so I know you see it. But when I look at your map, mostly what I see is a map.
I really feel you have a story underneath here and characters underneath here. I really wish I could help you get it out. Here's a thought, an experiment: Take six things from the sex scene, the best six things. List them. Images, sensations. In sentences. In fragments. Whatever. Take us to that bedroom door. Then give us the six special things. Bam. Bam. Bam bam bam. Bam. Optionally one short sentence to summarize. And move on.
- Mat Twassel
From: Gary Jordan
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: 17 Jan 2002 05:18:18 GMT
By now, everyone should recognize that it's Desdmona who says:
There are only four responses and I'm already too late. Most of my points have been made..
The Rathskeller. I'm assuming this is an on-campus pub. We had one at the University of Florida in days of yore - they served 3.2% (three-two) beer and didn't check IDs as closely as they ought. I think they spelled it Ratskeller, or maybe it was just that we called it the Rat Cellar. It brung back memories, either way.
2. Long distance relationships. Seems to be one starting. I had one. The bad parts are the pits. The good parts are that sometimes absence does make the heart grow fonder, and reacquainting after separation can be like falling in love all over. Again, its a memory thing. I like stories that stir pleasant memories.
1. The few thoughts that I had have been covered.
2. Ummmmmm. (Why do you think I put my stories in the fish tank? If I could improve yours, I'd write better!)
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners never die. They spend time in sunken tubs." http://www.asstr.org/~gary/ http://www.asstr.org/~gary/Clitorides/
http://www.asstr.org/~gary/ShonRichards/ http://www.asstr.org/spotlight.html http://www.storiesonline.net/
From: Desdmona
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: 17 Jan 2002 14:38:51 GMT
Hiya RB!
First things first, even though one of the guidelines is not to repeat, I think sometimes, knowing that several readers have the same thoughts after reading something you've written can add credence. So I'm going to reaffirm a few comments and then I'll go on with other comments.
I agree with Meme about several things, especially the name thing. In real life, people have similar names, even identical ones, but in real life, in a foursome, you're not relying on their names to identify them ... in real life, you have all the other characteristics that make each person unique. So something as simple as Krista and Kyra or John and Jay can be very distracting when reading and trying to decipher who is who. Another thing may be just the lack of characterization, as was mentioned. If each person had been more clearly characterized, then the name similarity may go unnoticed. I'm wondering if in the previous parts to the story (not part of the FishTank) you described the physical attributes of each character and thought it wasn't necessary to do so again. Because this story is a long one, and even longer with multiple parts, I think it would be fine to at least allude to physical characteristics again. Even if it's something like, "Krista's blue eyes sparkled at the mention of her party!" And throwing in a few personality traits would also help to take away the generic feel to the four people.
The other stumbling block is typos. We all make them, every last one of us. That's why it's a good thing to proofread carefully, or better yet have someone you trust do it for you. There were so many double ll's, double ii's and double ee's that at one point I started to giggle. You never want the typos to become the story - many readers will stop reading, unable to see the story's worth because of the mistakes.
Meme and I must really be on the same wavelength on this one because I too thought the cunnilingus teaching was extremely sexy. I wasn't bothered by the interruption. In fact, I was teased by it. (Yummy!) But darn it, I wanted to get back to it and not just by talking about it. Maybe in the next installment?
I like the glimpse into college life. It's fun, free, uninhibited, and universal. The party at Krista's has some interesting spots in it, but it almost seems like they played one game and then the party was over. Maybe you could add some party happenings, like drinking games, spilled food, witty conversations, or music mistakes. Something that makes the party come alive. (I really liked Kyra's response to the unwanted suitor)
I found a couple of things in the sex scene to be really erotic: When John's cum dribbles on Jay ... it's a perfect way to bring in a component of M/M without squicking anyone averse to that. I think the taboo aspect of it is what made it erotic for me. I also really liked, "I pulled her thong to the side and slid my tongue into her wettening slit." I realize "wettening" probably isn't a real word, but I like it anyway. I especially liked it because she didn't have a sopping, wet pussy just at the mere mention of sex. She became wet with activity. Very real, very sexy! I also find it very erotic that instead of just yanking down the panties, he went through the side. That could just be a favorite of mine ... slipping in through the side, not yet committing to full disclosure, teasingly, tauntingly, working his way in. <ahem> Sorry I was distracted for a second.
Anyway, I think you have the workings of a really great foursome story. I'll be very interested in seeing a rewrite if that's what you choose to do.
Thanks RB for allowing us this chance!
Des
From: Father Ignatius
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:34:19 +0200
"Desdmona22" <desdmona22@aol.com> wrote in message news:20020114124825.19215.00001036@mb-mg.aol.com ...
Been vacillating for days about whether or not to post, cuz I didn't finish it and shan't. Oh, well, here goes.
2 positive comments
1) You can write. You are articulate. You can do this. So don't get discouraged now.
2) Hey, maths geek stuff. My bruddah. That means you set the stroke in some sort of a context, which I happen to like. It's the way out of stroke and into storytelling, which I happen to like.
2 things to improve
1) Write tighter. Like, a lot tighter. I'd suggest doing a Version 2 as an exercise, in half the words. Figure out what you want to say before you start saying it.
2) Have someone else read it so you can find out what the reader misunderstands about your limpid prose. It;s a very humbling experience, take it from one who knows, and it doesn't seem to get any better. What does get better is the number of readers and how much they like your story.
"Father Ignatius" <FatherIgnatius@hotmail.com> http://www.asstr.org/~FatherIgnatius/Stories.html The Web's Best Illustrated Adult Fiction is at http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: RocketBlast_76
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 15:57:18 -0500
On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 01:17:16 GMT, meme misspelt <meem17@mwmw.com> wrote:
No worries.
I thought it'd be a good lead in for the next part of the story
I'm glad you mentioned, "Diffy-Queue", as I was struggling as to figure out how to write it. I had to settle for DE3 because I was getting too hung up on it and it was really a small detail. Thanks!
I wish I could say it was character-building, but the real reason is related to how I've always done things. I normally write something (paper, story, presentation) and never read it again, otherwise I start to get very nit-picky ... to an extreme fault. I *used* to trust the spell checker in my news reader, but I think I may have to use an alternate one, as many people mentioned these errors. I will clean it up. In terms of "lay" and "lie", I just used whatever came natural to me, which is a cop out, of course, but I think may more closely reflect an "average Joe's" grasp of the intricacies (sp?) of the English language.
I think the character development was an issue in reading this part alone. As the author, I retrospectively believe that I am too biased to make the assertion that there is enoguh character development. After all, I know who everyone is.
The names were derived from my actual college friends, all of whom had strikingly similar names. Again, I point to my bias as the author, though I certainly concede to your point.
I would like to thank you very much for your comments. They will serve me well in further refining this story and help to pre-refine my future endeavours. Thanks,
RB76
From: PleaseCain
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: 19 Jan 2002 00:34:12 GMT
The details are good - keep all of those. Plenty of sharp observations that draw us into the scenes.
Also, the friendship of Jay and John/Jon (the spelling changes throughout the story) rings true to me. I've known guys like John.
For suggestions, I return again to your details: do keep them in, but rework or restate them more naturally within the narrative, ex., instead of pinpointing exact outdoor temperatures (which could make for useful characterization if the narrator were an anal-retentive or a meteorologist-in-training), couldn't it be "pleasant walking" or even "just perfect," etc. I'm using the temperatures as examples, but it applies elsewhere. The entire first paragraph, for instance, could be rewritten more succinctly and naturally:
A. It was the following Wednesday and I had just gotten out of my night class. I told John and Krista that I'd meet them at one of the bars near campus after my class and I was walking over as promised. The night was a cool 65 degrees and there was a breeze blowing across the campus. I have always appreciated the wind, for reasons that I do not know, and as I walked to the Rathskellar I had a contented grin on my face.
B. After night class the following Wednesday, I was walking to meet John and Krista at the Rathskellar near campus. It was the kind of cool breezy evening that always brings a smile to my face.
There are a hundred ways of wording it, but you get the picture. The dialogue too would benefit from this kind of streamlining, where in places it feels a bit awkward or stilted.
Thanks for letting us read this. We boys want more Kyra. In fact, those lessons they keep talking about together would make a great story.
Cain
From: RocketBlast_76
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:57:31 -0500
On 19 Jan 2002 00:34:12 GMT, pleasecain@aol.com (PleaseCain) wrote:
I also noticed, too late, that I kept changing the spelling of Jon's name. Chalk it up to inattention to detail, an arena that I vastly need to improve.
I tend to be very precise. I think loosening up is a good idea, as you suggested. I think I tend to be precise, especially during the sex scenes, because I want to convey an exact image. Maybe this spills over into other aspects of the story which detract from the flow, again, as you observed.
Thank you. Your comments have made me introspective and I like doing that. Kudos to you!
Believe you me, everything about the person whom Kyra is based made me compose this entire series. She knows a lot of stuff and, to give you a sneak preview, she starts getting into experimenting ... a lot.
Thanks again!
RB76
From: RocketBlast_76
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:07:42 -0500
On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:14:33 -0600, Jeff Zephyr <jeffzeph@hotmail.com> wrote:
Krista's house was near the campus, it was Kyra who live a ways away ... I guess I didn't explain that well enough. BTW, I don't mind more than two criticisms when they're constructive ...
It was a party for Krista's birthday, but not a "birthday party." Only her close friends new it was her birthday. Again, I should have explained this more clearly.
Part one covered that. I think I was overly confident that this part of the story could stand on it's own with too much confusion ...
Thanks!
I think you are right. I try and avoid what I would term "verbally bashing" women in intimate settings by calling them slut, whore, bitch, etc. I may work your suggestion into the next part.
From: RocketBlast_76
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:18:26 -0500
I would like to make some general comments before going into specifics with those who posted responses.
First off, thank you to everyone who submitted feedback. I appreciate the time and effort you put into assisting me.
Secondly, thank you Desdmona for accepting it as a submission. I didn't realize the story was as long as it turned out to be. I will be sure to incorporate a word counter on future submissions. The longest thing I ever wrote for fun before this was much shorter.
Retrospectively, I have two observations of my own work; I need to review grammar and spelling more thoroughly and I need to take myself out of the context of the author and look at it as a first time reader.
On a more personal note, all of the stories I have written of this nature have only ever be viewed by me before posting. I like throwing caution to the wind. I am glad to have found a forum where others can review my work and give feedback. A task often easier to do when the reviewers are essentially anonymous.
Thank you all again!
RB76
From: dennyw
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 15:45:52 -0800
On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:18:26 -0500, RocketBlast_76@yahoo.com held forth, saying:
Good plan - but it's damned hard to do. You still know what you meant to say, and so are likely not to notice the spots where your words don't actually say what you meant.
IOW: find yourself a proofer - there's a page at ASSTR set up to help writers find proofers (proofers never have much problem finding writers with whom to work. <g>)
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: RocketBlast_76
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:28:42 -0500
On Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:34:19 +0200, "Father Ignatius" <FatherIgnatius@hotmail.com> wrote:
I can appreciate this, especially the honesty. I think it speaks to your first comment on improvements.
Thank you for the encouragement.
I used to be in Physics, hence the math. Gota give the nerds a chance to have some fun, I say.
I am not sure I understand what you mean by "Figure out what you want to say ..." I know exactly what I want to say. I am interpreting this to mean something like "Figure out what you want to say and then say it in a way so that other people know what you are saying."
As far as writing more tightly. I admit that I tend to be long-winded. The exercise you suggested may go a long way towards improving how succinct my descriptions and dialogue are.
As I understand limpid, it is synonymous with "clear". I guess I am confused about what you mean.
So far I have found this whole process of writing, submitting and reviewing to be humbling, but rightly and justly so.
Thanks for the feedback!
RB76
From: RocketBlast_76
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:33:47 -0500
On 17 Jan 2002 05:18:18 GMT, pjcocoa@aol.come.to.bed (Gary Jordan) wrote:
I was recently back there, but their menu has gone too vegan for my taste. I am glad it brought back memories (as it was kind of the point of the story ...)
Yes they suck at the time, but I have found them to be sometimes fruitful.
No worries. repetition is the key. You have to repeatedly bang things into my head somtimes. ;-)
Thanks for the feedback!
RB76
From: RocketBlast_76
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:50:20 -0500
On 17 Jan 2002 14:38:51 GMT, desdmona22@aol.com (Desdmona22) wrote:
Upon reflection of what you and others have said, I feel that you are right. Since I spent a lot of time describing the physical looks of Kyra and Krista in part two, it seemed to me (at the time) to be overly repetitive. But I have realized that I am not the best judge of this, since I know what all the characters look like. Also, like reading a good and then seeing it made into a movie, the visuals presented often do not jive with the images you had created in your head when you read the book. I tried to let the readers imagination project the faces and bodies of those they find attractive into the characters. However, as I stated before, I am not the best judge of this and your suggestion has obvious merit. Thanks!
That's my bad. I'll be working on that in the future.
They're going to be coming. (I could not help the pun.)
Thanks (re: the suitor)! Again, I believe you are right. Though I may have to start worrying about lengthening the story, something that some people have suggested I not do. I may have to contract some other things in the interest of, well, interest.
Well, if the description of it is making your mind wander, then I have succeeded in some capacity. Yes, "wettening" is probably not a word, but it seemed to convey the image I wanted. I hadn't thought of the cum dribbling as being necessarily M/M, especially considering what Kyra does with it, but I guess it does have that element.
I will be re-writing it.
No problem. Thanks for hosting the forum! RB76
From: RocketBlast_76
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 17:01:01 -0500
I forgot to mention the size of the bed in the scene. Since it was in Krista's house (and not in a dorm room) she had a king size bed. Though I did mention that both Jon and Jay were "working" from the sides of the bed for most of the time.
Good observation of a missing detail.
On Tue, 15 Jan 2002 01:17:16 GMT, meme misspelt <meem17@mwmw.com> wrote:
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: A Return to College, Part 3, by RocketBlast_76
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 19:40:06 -0600
On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:07:42 -0500, RocketBlast_76@yahoo.com wrote:
Near was ~20 minutes, which is maybe OK depending on traffic and such but is further than I lived from college most of the time. It was maybe 5 minutes, plus parking time :-) Anyway, long enough that I could see a bit more going on with the trip.
Kyra's long-distane situation didn't seem clear, but maybe if I read the prior chapters it might make more sense. It is hard, and maybe not essential, in a serial with chapters to explain everything about everyone in each part.
Repeating some details doesn't hurt. I know, you'll still know it but I think that people do make repetitive comments, so it doesn't hurt to have a little of that in the story.
I felt it was very unfair when my girlfriend would be called a slut (rarely to her face even by other girls), whereas I, whose behavior in terms of partners and situations wasn't much different, was OK, maybe even just being a normal guy, going out on his slutty girlfriend in compensation or something.
Anyway, a nice respectable college girl who likes sex just doesn't seem like the sort to accept being a "slut" in a derogatory sense.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
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