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From: Bradley Stoke
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: 27 May 2002 15:36:16 -0700
Qikless
I rather enjoyed this short piece of fiction. There were some very
memorable images, particularly near the beginning. I particularly
liked the first paragraph:
"My mirror talks aplenty, but it doesn't tell me anything I want to
hear; at thirty two, my figure is past its prime, my eyes deepened
and darkened by silent, sleepless nights, my skin toneless, my
face, haggard, exhausted. The whirlwind of board meetings, sharp,
hard deadlines, and the infuriating endless competition was long
over, but it had taken a sick toll; now, when I can have anything
I want, I can't have the things I want."
It was a hot tale of masturbation, made the sweeter by the memorable
image of a woman who had worn herself out in her pursuit of love and
money, and was in some strange way addicted to it all.
So, the two things I liked most about the story are (1) the very
strong images, particularly of the female narrator, and (2) the
well-judged use of description.
I was less keen on some of the sex writing, but I think it's actually
very difficult to write good descriptions of sex. A useful technique
(but not necessarily one that might be to your taste) is to centre
all the sex on a single metaphor or image. Perhaps one introduced in
the first few paragraphs. And then squeeze what you can out of that.
If nothing else, it would be give an overall coherence to a short
piece of fiction.
I also felt that I needed to feel more of the bitterness in the sex as
well as the desire. We know that the protagonist has had cause for
complaint in a year of "engagements, heartbreaks, marriages, and
divorces". There wasn't much of that in the sex.
All in all, a pretty good short story.
Bradley Stoke
For More : http://www.asstr.org/~Bradley_Stoke
(mirror: http://bradley-stoke.fsn.net)
From: john
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: 28 May 2002 21:26:25 -0700
This is the first attempt at erotica for Qickless. It is 747 words in
length. Please take this opportunity to support and to guide.
This for me, is an interesting contrast to "Madison." For me, they
illustrate the difference between a story and a sketch. Both were, in
the main, mostly one long sex scene, both very well written, both
very interesting female character developments. One rich, one poor.
Both mature women who see themselves as "sluts" but both human enough,
detailed enough to be something more than just a stereotype. Both
women hard enough to be cool, yet both still believe in, long for,
"love," at least at some level.
"Not Right," for me, lacks the sub-text that constitutes a kind of
plot. In "Madison" there is a consequence, a tomorrow, a promise to a
disapproving child. It may be vague, but it is there and, by virtue
of its title, its what the author thought the story was about. I
confess, I have no idea what "Not Right" might be about except "a slut
has sex." As for plot, for story line, for conflict, all I see is a
woman looking in her mirror at the start and at the end. An irony
perhaps? Not unless the author gives some reason we should care.
As a sketch, it's interesting. A bit brutal for my taste, a bit
depressing. But very competent. I think I know her by the end. I'm
primed for her to do something, now that I know her.
Could I ask a few questions which no doubt betray my lack of
sophistication in such matters?
What thick velvet things do ladies wear over their faces?
What is a slightly overweight apartment?
How does battling against the rape of one's face turn one on?
They all sounded right. Until I tried to picture them. Then, "not
right," for me.
There's room for all kinds of fish here. That's what makes it so
interesting to me. This is a keeper.
John
From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 18:32:05 GMT
On Mon, 27 May 2002 10:11:18 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com>
wrote:
1) 2 positive comments
A short gloomy tale, filled with erotic imagery and dark poetry.
Excellent use of language.
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
Long sentences seem to go with poetic flow, but it might be more
effective to shorten them up in some areas. For example, right at the
beginning: start a new sentence with "At 32 .."
Not a suggestion, but an observation: heavy use of metaphor can make
it hard for the reader to distinguish between an image and an event.
Is "the thick velvet over my face with holes in all the right places"
either a form of night makeup, a mask (real or virtual), perhaps to
hide feelings, or a restraint device? This is a puzzle that does not
need to be solved: poetry can leave the reader to adopt his/her own
interpretation.
The ending: it might be good to see some concluding resolution towards
life. "I stand up and walk to the mirror - a slut looks back at me,
yearning for love." If the mirror tells her nothing she wants to
hear, maybe she should tell the mirror something. Perhaps, "Tomorrow,
I'll make a new start ... "? We don't need to believe for a moment
that it will really happen, but somehow, there's a FEELING missing at
the end.
I slipped a slim shapeless gown over my naked frame, shivering as
the dress nuzzled over me, nudging things back to where they
belonged, holding it all in, almost giving me something that can
never be. I'd hidden behind a shadow all my life ...
Love that imagery, the nuzzling and nudging verbs.
Do we have a fixation on shadows? Should that perhaps be part of the
title?
a sprawling TV, and shadows on the wall to keep me company.
They come in, they touch me.
Ummm .. is this the shadows? The pronoun linkage may be
unintentional.
When I wake up, the TV is switched on, and the mild hum of a distant
show fills the air. I'm all bruises and pain, my pussy aches, and I
can feel the blood on my tongue, and the stale sex in the air.
And those damn shadows never send you flowers afterwards.
- Jim
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From: Mat Twassel
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: 30 May 2002 20:25:56 GMT
The flat sex and frustrated character do come across. Everything seems so sad,
so lifeless. I wish there had been a moment of hope, of freshness.
I wonder if first person is the best way to tell this story. Might be worth
rewriting in third person. What I'd like to see is the appearance of passion.
Through the story it should seem the character is getting what she wants. Then
at the end, in front of that final mirror, the truth is revealed. Third person
would let you do that.
- Mat Twassel
From: Souvie
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 06:02:52 GMT
On Mon, 27 May 2002 10:11:18 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com>
wrote:
The following is our 40th submission to the FishTank. We're fast approaching
a full year in operation. It's been an interesting and educational process.
I hope that we can continue to provide specific feedback for authors who
wish it.
This is the first attempt at erotica for Qickless. It is 747 words in
length. Please take this opportunity to support and to guide. FishTank
guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
I love how this starts out. Very descriptive and some things I can
relate to.
The negative is that I'd like more. I generally like short vignettes
or "snapshots" but sometimes more is better.
To pick up on some things that others have said:
I think the velvet over her face is a mask of some sort, since guys
come and go, anonmity (however in the heck you spell it!) is probably
a welcome relief.
Also, the "overweight apartment" tends to make me think of crowded
furnishings, possibly heavy and ornamental (gilded, etc. harking back
to an earlier age, or at least trying to).
- Souvie
FishTank submissions and comments may be accessed at:
http://www.asstr.org/~Desdmona/FishTank/base
Questions, comments or suggestions may be directed to: me@Desdmona.com or
Desdmona22@aol.com.
************************************
Not Right(M+F)
by Qickless(qickless@fastmail.fm)
My mirror talks aplenty, but it doesn't tell me anything I want to
hear; at thirty two, my figure is past its prime, my eyes deepened
and darkened by silent, sleepless nights, my skin toneless, my
face, haggard, exhausted. The whirlwind of board meetings, sharp,
hard deadlines, and the infuriating endless competition was long
over, but it had taken a sick toll; now, when I can have anything
I want, I can't have the things I want.
Lovers? Too many; they came for my money, stayed for my
money, and left me for the damn money. The bastards never stop
trying, and I never learn. The last year was a roller-coaster of
engagements, heartbreaks, marriages, and divorces.
Money? Too much.
Happiness?
I slipped a slim shapeless gown over my naked frame, shivering as
the dress nuzzled over me, nudging things back to where they
belonged, holding it all in, almost giving me something that can
never be. I'd hidden behind a shadow all my life; the thick velvet
over my face with holes in all the right places, thin red lipstick,
a touch of a wild perfume and a shivering body beneath it all
completed my outfit.
My limo dropped me outside five minutes later and I walked the
few steps into that pale, slightly overweight apartment, the wine-
red carpeting beneath my steps almost nauseatingly familiar. Two
knocks at the door later, I'm in, and I flop down, a stuffy waterbed,
a sprawling TV, and shadows on the wall to keep me company.
They come in, they touch me. Hands stroke mine, wet kisses at
my ear and my neck, deep longing caresses - body against body,
hard muscle melding with soft yielding flesh. My lips start battling
furiously against the licking and raping of my face; rough hands
maul at my breasts as my nipples harden and thrust out, eager,
yearning for attention. Hands rip away my decency, lighting up
my body, thrusting fingers into my pussy and latching onto my cleft
deep inside - wetness and hardness everywhere. I bite my lips as I
try to hold it back, but the incessant groping fills me, drowning out
everything else, and I cry out. The almost stifled groan fills
the room as the poundings begin, my cunt grunting hard to accept
the ripping invader, thrusting it out on the way in, and clutching at
it as it leaves, filling and leaving me again and again. The pleasure
rips through me, one bite at my nipple when it seems to fade, and I
thrust out - possessed, one timely lick at my clit, a single sly
finger into my ass keeps me going forever, but then - oh so soon -
it begins to fade out, the pulses coming in longer gasps, the
pleasure no longer so eloquent.
"More!" I breathe, and I feel something pushed into my ass, a cock
begins smashing into me half way as another leaves, they're
struggling to rip me apart, the motions blurred, the sensations
confused. My body jerks endlessly, my clit vibrating in sync with
my rough groans that fill the room; I close my eyes and lose myself
in the sweet agony, feeling my cunt and ass competing for the
larger share, but again ...
"More!" I gasp, and I see a dildo pushed inside my cunt, gripping
my sore lips, digging into them and holding on as the blazing
motions continue, there are three cocks inside me now, contending
for the syrupy juice that was gushing out of my pussy, the girl-cum
being lapped up by condoms, plastic and leather.
"More!" I yell, and I feel a sharp pain in my nipples, corkscrews
twisting around my tender flesh, until the pain almost pushes the
pleasure away and I yell out again, salt in my mouth, sugar on my
lips.
They switch it on, and a surge flows through the cold metal, and
the screws latched onto my flesh start pulsing as the pain tears into
me, my mad body being held down by arms on my face and my
breasts, my cunt-lips pinched by cruel hands, my ass violated with
an impossible object in one single shaky motion as I scream, the
pleasure and the pain merging into one long drawn out growl as
my body shreds itself inside me and the world explodes all over.
When I wake up, the TV is switched on, and the mild hum of a distant
show fills the air. I'm all bruises and pain, my pussy aches, and I
can feel the blood on my tongue, and the stale sex in the air.
I stand up and walk to the mirror - a slut looks back at me, yearning
for love.
From: celia batau
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 23:20:55 -0700
hi Des and Qickless!
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote in message
news:uf4fl3gltr185b@news.supernews.com ...
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
pozzie one: dark. nice sense of emptyness. :)
pozzie two: some good imagery, like "salt in my mouth, sugar on my lips." :)
neggie one: temporal weirdness. the jumps interrupt the flow. and the
woman's thoughts don't really connect from one scene to the next. there are
the borders of the mirror, but it's almost like she's floating above the
events. but it's such a short story what maybe it might need more mental
involvement, if that makes sense?
neggie two: corkscrews. like the ones you use to open wine bottles? clamps,
clips, clothepins. raw wires and electrical tape. yeah. but corkscrews?
thanks for sharing the story. :)
-celia
Not Right(M+F)
by Qickless(qickless@fastmail.fm)
From: PleaseCain
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: 31 May 2002 19:48:24 GMT
Imaginative and hard-hitting. I don't enjoy it at all, but like it a lot. I
don't pretend to know whether it is the woman's fantasy or her ritual (I think
the former), but it doesn't matter much, does it? The fact that you blur the
distinction in my mind is a mark of your achievement, I think, and in either
case, this is a glimpse into her mind and her desires. To me, your
accomplishment is the stark voice, which sets the tone and doesn't falter,
helping to create the nice ambiguities I mentioned above.
My suggestions relate to language. I would cut some adjectives, particularly
the consecutive ones. They mess up your pacing. There are also several
phrases I don't comprehend - for example, "the ... groping fills me" and
"thrusting it out on the way in" - but as a reader, I don't demand that every
reference be understood, so you can take this observation for what it's worth.
"Groan" seems to echo throughout, but on review, I found it in only two places
(perhaps I lumped it in with "grunt," which is used at least once).
Welcome aboard, Qickless, excellent stuff!
Cain
From: oosh
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 03:05:24 +0000 (UTC)
I liked the pacing, and thought that the beginning was particularly good
in that respect - I particularly liked the three questions "Lovers?",
"Money?", "Happiness?" with their increasingly unsatisfactory answers.
I thought the ending worked, and was very touching.
Two little points of detail gave trouble. The first was the concept of
multiple divorces within a single year. I don't know much about divorce,
but I don't think I know anyone who could go through it twice in five
years. Two broken engagements in a year I'd find easier to believe.
Perhaps this could be toned down a little.
The second thing was the two knocks at the door. That implied that she
was asking to be let in. Yet the rest of the story implied that she was
on her own, and that her companions were imaginary. I couldn't resolve
that contradiction.
O.
From: Qickless
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: 1 Jun 2002 23:29:58 -0700
Hi!
I'll start off by thanking everyone who commented on this story -
Bradley, John, Jim, Mat, Souvie, Celia, Cain, and O.
I chanced upon ASSTR about two months back, and since I've always
wanted to write stories of this nature, I decided to give a try at
becoming an author.
Bradley - Writing about sex is something that I'm working on right
now. It is very hard to actually convey what I want to, and I'm
reading the works of many others to try to understand how sex figures
in their stories. Many of the stories that I read have sex for the
sake of sex itself. But from what I understand, sex doesn't come
without a poignant enough reason to justify it; I want my good stories
to have sex but where it is just a consequence of the plot. I've found
very few authors who actually work like that, and I think that that
kind of written sex is different, and actually harder than the
jump-into-pants type. I'm writing some stories of the second type
right now, so that I'd be more comfortable introducing it in my later
stories. And Bradley, I love your works.
John - I haven't read 'Madison' but from what you tell me, it is a
more developed piece of writing. 'Not Right'(and you're right, the
title itself is awkward) was written on the spur of the moment, and
edited for about a day. It lacks a conclusion, because it was meant to
be unfinished.
Jim - "Long sentences seem to go with poetic flow," you've answered
yourself there, but I agree, sometimes a mile long sentence is
extremely bad. I'm working on splitting sentences so that I don't lose
the flow - as many of you would've noticed, I use 'then' and 'again' a
lot and I'm very bad with adverbs and prepositions. I'm trying to
replace those words with some others that would convey the same
meaning. And Jim, in my version, it is 'shadows,' but perhaps I
corrected it after the submission.
Mat - I'm exploring writing from the third-person perspective. It's
refreshingly easier, and the point does come across more often. But I
think a well written first person snap is much better than any other
kind of implementation.
Souvie - The metaphors are there simply because people can imagine a
lot out of them. Yours are very good.
Celia & Cain - As I told Jim, I'm working on the flow. And corkscrews
is indeed odd, wonder where that came from<g>
O - I didn't know that about the divorces, I'll have to correct that
one immediately. About the knocking on the door, it goes this way: She
has to ask permission to receive the only thing that gives her even a
momentary flash of pleasure. That's her pain.
Again, thanks to everybody who responded.
I've learnt a little bit after I wrote 'Not Right'. The sex in it is
not arousing, but is not meant to be. If you read this one, and got
the feel that you were looking on as an observer(Celia, that was the
whole point that I tried to get across), relating to some things, but
not to all, then I've succeeded in what I've tried to do. Although I
rather like happy endings, this one is cruel, but it is deliberately
so.
Not Right is unfinished, because I didn't and I don't have the skill
to finish it off well. English is my second language, and however hard
I try, the simple fact that I think in my native tongue makes it
difficult for me to articulate properly. But I still have some years
before me, and I hope that before I stop writing, I'll write a story
that can finish this one appropriately.
What am I working on right now? On improving the descriptions of sex.
I'm going to take a break and pointedly read a lot of erotica, so that
I can write better sex when I pen again.
I'm infatuated with pain and pleasure(not bdsm, but 'mental' pain, for
the lack of a better word), and I like to combine the two in my
stories. I mix these with romance, and especially teenage romance, and
the mix that I get is what I want almost all my stories to be.
Go to http://www.asstr.org/~qickless for more.
Thanks again,
Qickless.4:18 PM 6/3/2002
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: 02 Jun 2002 12:56:11 GMT
qickless writes:
What am I working on right now? On improving the descriptions of sex.
I'm going to take a break and pointedly read a lot of erotica, so that
I can write better sex when I pen again.
Nothing wrong with reading lots of erotica, I guess, but I'm not so sure it's
the best thing to do if one want to write better descriptions of sex. Sex
writing screams for freshness. And though it's fun to see how the masters and
the masses do it, I want to see how you do it.
- Mat Twassel
From: Desdmona
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 09:46:27 -0400
"Qickless" <qickless@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:3afd5cdb.0206012229.2a0127ec@posting.google.com ...
Hi!
Qickless~
I've done it again. I've let the week slip by and not responded to your
story. I made the mistake of reading your story as I posted it, formulated
some thoughts then, but as has been my habit, waited to allow others to
respond first. And Voila! I forget to write it in a post. <Sigh> OK, no more
waiting ... I'm responding early next time.
As to your story ... you already know I felt it was marked with excellence. I
don't doubt it might be your first attempt at writing erotica, but certainly
not of writing. Your ability shows!
There's such instant imagery with every sentence. The thick velvet was one
of the images I had earmarked to comment on, and it spoke to others in some
fashion as well. It made me think of a mask, a mask that feels good at
times, but it's still a mask and blocks reality. So for me, it works!
Another poignant image for me is, "Hands rip away my decency ..." That's good
stuff. The sex itself goes beyond what we generally think of as decent. This
sentence lets us know the narrator is battling, not only with finding love,
but with what society tells her is decent. Powerful talk for one sentence.
The imagery in the sex begins to blur. I'm still trying to decide if that
needs clarification. Probably not. But maybe just a few changes here and
there so the blurring still is effective without causing confusion. Although
a confused reader might be apt to read the same passage over and over to try
and understand, I don't think the goal is to want him to do so. Then the
urgency and/or maddening effect is too much. Along those lines, in the
following paragraph, I had to re-read to try and get the picture. Finally, I
concluded something just wasn't right.
"The almost stifled groan fills
the room as the poundings begin, my cunt grunting hard to accept
the ripping invader, thrusting it out on the way in, and clutching at
it as it leaves, filling and leaving me again and again. The pleasure
rips through me, one bite at my nipple when it seems to fade, and I
thrust out - possessed, one timely lick at my clit, a single sly
finger into my ass keeps me going forever, but then - oh so soon -
it begins to fade out, the pulses coming in longer gasps, the
pleasure no longer so eloquent.
If this is masturbation, I'm inclined to believe she's a contortionist. It
seems unlikely she can be doing all these things to herself at the same
time. Or maybe I need to extend my exercise workout so I can do the same
thing. <smile>
All in all, it's just good writing. Yours is a talent that needn't be
shelved or halted to read others. Rather you should experiment, write what
you feel, and let this awesome talent for description flourish.
Thanks for submitting to the FishTank, and again, my apologies for
commenting so late.
Des
From: Qickless
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: 2 Jun 2002 20:56:15 -0700
Hi!
This story may be good but as I said before, I lack the mettle to
complete it as it should be. I'm reading up on erotica just so that
I'd be familiar with all the various cliches in the descriptions,
something like 'her nether lips', or 'his engorged or throbbing penis'
or 38DDDD measurements. I've built up a library of 102 such clauses
that repeat ever so often in erotica<g>
What you can see from me then is fresher descriptions, since the last
thing I want to do is repeat.
Thanks Des for your comments, and tone down that late thing ok?
With a hand in my heart, I part,
Qickless
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote in message news:<ufk8faovtg1ted@news.supernews.com> ...
"Qickless" <qickless@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:3afd5cdb.0206012229.2a0127ec@posting.google.com ...
Hi!
Qickless~
I've done it again.
From: oosh
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 03:23:21 +0000 (UTC)
qickless@fastmail.fm (Qickless) wrote in
news:3afd5cdb.0206012229.2a0127ec@posting.google.com:
...About the knocking on the door, it goes this way: She
has to ask permission to receive the only thing that gives her even a
momentary flash of pleasure. That's her pain.
That's a really good thought - and I like the theme of mental conflict. I
think you're on to something here.
It is good, too, to make a concrete action symbolic.
Either I am being stupid, or you are making the reader work a little too
hard.
O.
From: Qickless
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: 3 Jun 2002 23:14:09 -0700
Celia,
I'll try harder next time, what you say about the key is very
interesting. And O, to understand one should try first, and you're
doing one heck of a job at deciphering meanings in my measly story.
The web site does not currently support submitting comments
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Please, try not to repeat!
Comments on Not Right, by Qickless.
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From: Bradley Stoke
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: 27 May 2002 15:36:16 -0700
Qikless
I rather enjoyed this short piece of fiction. There were some very memorable images, particularly near the beginning. I particularly liked the first paragraph:
"My mirror talks aplenty, but it doesn't tell me anything I want to hear; at thirty two, my figure is past its prime, my eyes deepened and darkened by silent, sleepless nights, my skin toneless, my face, haggard, exhausted. The whirlwind of board meetings, sharp, hard deadlines, and the infuriating endless competition was long over, but it had taken a sick toll; now, when I can have anything I want, I can't have the things I want."
It was a hot tale of masturbation, made the sweeter by the memorable image of a woman who had worn herself out in her pursuit of love and money, and was in some strange way addicted to it all.
So, the two things I liked most about the story are (1) the very strong images, particularly of the female narrator, and (2) the well-judged use of description.
I was less keen on some of the sex writing, but I think it's actually very difficult to write good descriptions of sex. A useful technique (but not necessarily one that might be to your taste) is to centre all the sex on a single metaphor or image. Perhaps one introduced in the first few paragraphs. And then squeeze what you can out of that. If nothing else, it would be give an overall coherence to a short piece of fiction.
I also felt that I needed to feel more of the bitterness in the sex as well as the desire. We know that the protagonist has had cause for complaint in a year of "engagements, heartbreaks, marriages, and divorces". There wasn't much of that in the sex.
All in all, a pretty good short story.
Bradley Stoke
For More : http://www.asstr.org/~Bradley_Stoke
(mirror: http://bradley-stoke.fsn.net)
From: john
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: 28 May 2002 21:26:25 -0700
This for me, is an interesting contrast to "Madison." For me, they illustrate the difference between a story and a sketch. Both were, in the main, mostly one long sex scene, both very well written, both very interesting female character developments. One rich, one poor. Both mature women who see themselves as "sluts" but both human enough, detailed enough to be something more than just a stereotype. Both women hard enough to be cool, yet both still believe in, long for, "love," at least at some level.
"Not Right," for me, lacks the sub-text that constitutes a kind of plot. In "Madison" there is a consequence, a tomorrow, a promise to a disapproving child. It may be vague, but it is there and, by virtue of its title, its what the author thought the story was about. I confess, I have no idea what "Not Right" might be about except "a slut has sex." As for plot, for story line, for conflict, all I see is a woman looking in her mirror at the start and at the end. An irony perhaps? Not unless the author gives some reason we should care.
As a sketch, it's interesting. A bit brutal for my taste, a bit depressing. But very competent. I think I know her by the end. I'm primed for her to do something, now that I know her.
Could I ask a few questions which no doubt betray my lack of sophistication in such matters?
What thick velvet things do ladies wear over their faces? What is a slightly overweight apartment? How does battling against the rape of one's face turn one on?
They all sounded right. Until I tried to picture them. Then, "not right," for me.
There's room for all kinds of fish here. That's what makes it so interesting to me. This is a keeper.
John
From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 18:32:05 GMT
On Mon, 27 May 2002 10:11:18 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
A short gloomy tale, filled with erotic imagery and dark poetry. Excellent use of language.
Long sentences seem to go with poetic flow, but it might be more effective to shorten them up in some areas. For example, right at the beginning: start a new sentence with "At 32 .."
Not a suggestion, but an observation: heavy use of metaphor can make it hard for the reader to distinguish between an image and an event. Is "the thick velvet over my face with holes in all the right places" either a form of night makeup, a mask (real or virtual), perhaps to hide feelings, or a restraint device? This is a puzzle that does not need to be solved: poetry can leave the reader to adopt his/her own interpretation.
The ending: it might be good to see some concluding resolution towards life. "I stand up and walk to the mirror - a slut looks back at me, yearning for love." If the mirror tells her nothing she wants to hear, maybe she should tell the mirror something. Perhaps, "Tomorrow, I'll make a new start ... "? We don't need to believe for a moment that it will really happen, but somehow, there's a FEELING missing at the end.
Love that imagery, the nuzzling and nudging verbs.
Do we have a fixation on shadows? Should that perhaps be part of the title?
Ummm .. is this the shadows? The pronoun linkage may be unintentional.
And those damn shadows never send you flowers afterwards.
- Jim
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From: Mat Twassel
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: 30 May 2002 20:25:56 GMT
The flat sex and frustrated character do come across. Everything seems so sad, so lifeless. I wish there had been a moment of hope, of freshness.
I wonder if first person is the best way to tell this story. Might be worth rewriting in third person. What I'd like to see is the appearance of passion. Through the story it should seem the character is getting what she wants. Then at the end, in front of that final mirror, the truth is revealed. Third person would let you do that.
- Mat Twassel
From: Souvie
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 06:02:52 GMT
On Mon, 27 May 2002 10:11:18 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
I love how this starts out. Very descriptive and some things I can relate to.
The negative is that I'd like more. I generally like short vignettes or "snapshots" but sometimes more is better.
To pick up on some things that others have said:
I think the velvet over her face is a mask of some sort, since guys come and go, anonmity (however in the heck you spell it!) is probably a welcome relief.
Also, the "overweight apartment" tends to make me think of crowded furnishings, possibly heavy and ornamental (gilded, etc. harking back to an earlier age, or at least trying to).
- Souvie
From: celia batau
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 23:20:55 -0700
hi Des and Qickless!
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote in message news:uf4fl3gltr185b@news.supernews.com ...
pozzie one: dark. nice sense of emptyness. :)
pozzie two: some good imagery, like "salt in my mouth, sugar on my lips." :)
neggie one: temporal weirdness. the jumps interrupt the flow. and the woman's thoughts don't really connect from one scene to the next. there are the borders of the mirror, but it's almost like she's floating above the events. but it's such a short story what maybe it might need more mental involvement, if that makes sense?
neggie two: corkscrews. like the ones you use to open wine bottles? clamps, clips, clothepins. raw wires and electrical tape. yeah. but corkscrews?
thanks for sharing the story. :)
-celia
From: PleaseCain
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: 31 May 2002 19:48:24 GMT
Imaginative and hard-hitting. I don't enjoy it at all, but like it a lot. I don't pretend to know whether it is the woman's fantasy or her ritual (I think the former), but it doesn't matter much, does it? The fact that you blur the distinction in my mind is a mark of your achievement, I think, and in either case, this is a glimpse into her mind and her desires. To me, your accomplishment is the stark voice, which sets the tone and doesn't falter, helping to create the nice ambiguities I mentioned above.
My suggestions relate to language. I would cut some adjectives, particularly the consecutive ones. They mess up your pacing. There are also several phrases I don't comprehend - for example, "the ... groping fills me" and "thrusting it out on the way in" - but as a reader, I don't demand that every reference be understood, so you can take this observation for what it's worth. "Groan" seems to echo throughout, but on review, I found it in only two places (perhaps I lumped it in with "grunt," which is used at least once).
Welcome aboard, Qickless, excellent stuff!
Cain
From: oosh
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 03:05:24 +0000 (UTC)
I liked the pacing, and thought that the beginning was particularly good in that respect - I particularly liked the three questions "Lovers?", "Money?", "Happiness?" with their increasingly unsatisfactory answers.
I thought the ending worked, and was very touching.
Two little points of detail gave trouble. The first was the concept of multiple divorces within a single year. I don't know much about divorce, but I don't think I know anyone who could go through it twice in five years. Two broken engagements in a year I'd find easier to believe. Perhaps this could be toned down a little.
The second thing was the two knocks at the door. That implied that she was asking to be let in. Yet the rest of the story implied that she was on her own, and that her companions were imaginary. I couldn't resolve that contradiction.
O.
From: Qickless
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: 1 Jun 2002 23:29:58 -0700
Hi!
I'll start off by thanking everyone who commented on this story - Bradley, John, Jim, Mat, Souvie, Celia, Cain, and O.
I chanced upon ASSTR about two months back, and since I've always wanted to write stories of this nature, I decided to give a try at becoming an author.
Bradley - Writing about sex is something that I'm working on right now. It is very hard to actually convey what I want to, and I'm reading the works of many others to try to understand how sex figures in their stories. Many of the stories that I read have sex for the sake of sex itself. But from what I understand, sex doesn't come without a poignant enough reason to justify it; I want my good stories to have sex but where it is just a consequence of the plot. I've found very few authors who actually work like that, and I think that that kind of written sex is different, and actually harder than the jump-into-pants type. I'm writing some stories of the second type right now, so that I'd be more comfortable introducing it in my later stories. And Bradley, I love your works.
John - I haven't read 'Madison' but from what you tell me, it is a more developed piece of writing. 'Not Right'(and you're right, the title itself is awkward) was written on the spur of the moment, and edited for about a day. It lacks a conclusion, because it was meant to be unfinished.
Jim - "Long sentences seem to go with poetic flow," you've answered yourself there, but I agree, sometimes a mile long sentence is extremely bad. I'm working on splitting sentences so that I don't lose the flow - as many of you would've noticed, I use 'then' and 'again' a lot and I'm very bad with adverbs and prepositions. I'm trying to replace those words with some others that would convey the same meaning. And Jim, in my version, it is 'shadows,' but perhaps I corrected it after the submission.
Mat - I'm exploring writing from the third-person perspective. It's refreshingly easier, and the point does come across more often. But I think a well written first person snap is much better than any other kind of implementation.
Souvie - The metaphors are there simply because people can imagine a lot out of them. Yours are very good.
Celia & Cain - As I told Jim, I'm working on the flow. And corkscrews is indeed odd, wonder where that came from<g>
O - I didn't know that about the divorces, I'll have to correct that one immediately. About the knocking on the door, it goes this way: She has to ask permission to receive the only thing that gives her even a momentary flash of pleasure. That's her pain.
Again, thanks to everybody who responded.
I've learnt a little bit after I wrote 'Not Right'. The sex in it is not arousing, but is not meant to be. If you read this one, and got the feel that you were looking on as an observer(Celia, that was the whole point that I tried to get across), relating to some things, but not to all, then I've succeeded in what I've tried to do. Although I rather like happy endings, this one is cruel, but it is deliberately so.
Not Right is unfinished, because I didn't and I don't have the skill to finish it off well. English is my second language, and however hard I try, the simple fact that I think in my native tongue makes it difficult for me to articulate properly. But I still have some years before me, and I hope that before I stop writing, I'll write a story that can finish this one appropriately.
What am I working on right now? On improving the descriptions of sex. I'm going to take a break and pointedly read a lot of erotica, so that I can write better sex when I pen again.
I'm infatuated with pain and pleasure(not bdsm, but 'mental' pain, for the lack of a better word), and I like to combine the two in my stories. I mix these with romance, and especially teenage romance, and the mix that I get is what I want almost all my stories to be.
Go to http://www.asstr.org/~qickless for more.
Thanks again,
Qickless.4:18 PM 6/3/2002
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: 02 Jun 2002 12:56:11 GMT
qickless writes:
Nothing wrong with reading lots of erotica, I guess, but I'm not so sure it's the best thing to do if one want to write better descriptions of sex. Sex writing screams for freshness. And though it's fun to see how the masters and the masses do it, I want to see how you do it.
- Mat Twassel
From: Desdmona
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 09:46:27 -0400
Qickless~
I've done it again. I've let the week slip by and not responded to your story. I made the mistake of reading your story as I posted it, formulated some thoughts then, but as has been my habit, waited to allow others to respond first. And Voila! I forget to write it in a post. <Sigh> OK, no more waiting ... I'm responding early next time.
As to your story ... you already know I felt it was marked with excellence. I don't doubt it might be your first attempt at writing erotica, but certainly not of writing. Your ability shows!
There's such instant imagery with every sentence. The thick velvet was one of the images I had earmarked to comment on, and it spoke to others in some fashion as well. It made me think of a mask, a mask that feels good at times, but it's still a mask and blocks reality. So for me, it works!
Another poignant image for me is, "Hands rip away my decency ..." That's good stuff. The sex itself goes beyond what we generally think of as decent. This sentence lets us know the narrator is battling, not only with finding love, but with what society tells her is decent. Powerful talk for one sentence.
The imagery in the sex begins to blur. I'm still trying to decide if that needs clarification. Probably not. But maybe just a few changes here and there so the blurring still is effective without causing confusion. Although a confused reader might be apt to read the same passage over and over to try and understand, I don't think the goal is to want him to do so. Then the urgency and/or maddening effect is too much. Along those lines, in the following paragraph, I had to re-read to try and get the picture. Finally, I concluded something just wasn't right.
"The almost stifled groan fills
the room as the poundings begin, my cunt grunting hard to accept the ripping invader, thrusting it out on the way in, and clutching at it as it leaves, filling and leaving me again and again. The pleasure rips through me, one bite at my nipple when it seems to fade, and I thrust out - possessed, one timely lick at my clit, a single sly finger into my ass keeps me going forever, but then - oh so soon - it begins to fade out, the pulses coming in longer gasps, the pleasure no longer so eloquent.
If this is masturbation, I'm inclined to believe she's a contortionist. It seems unlikely she can be doing all these things to herself at the same time. Or maybe I need to extend my exercise workout so I can do the same thing. <smile>
All in all, it's just good writing. Yours is a talent that needn't be shelved or halted to read others. Rather you should experiment, write what you feel, and let this awesome talent for description flourish.
Thanks for submitting to the FishTank, and again, my apologies for commenting so late.
Des
From: Qickless
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: 2 Jun 2002 20:56:15 -0700
Hi!
This story may be good but as I said before, I lack the mettle to complete it as it should be. I'm reading up on erotica just so that I'd be familiar with all the various cliches in the descriptions, something like 'her nether lips', or 'his engorged or throbbing penis' or 38DDDD measurements. I've built up a library of 102 such clauses that repeat ever so often in erotica<g>
What you can see from me then is fresher descriptions, since the last thing I want to do is repeat.
Thanks Des for your comments, and tone down that late thing ok?
With a hand in my heart, I part,
Qickless
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote in message news:<ufk8faovtg1ted@news.supernews.com> ...
From: oosh
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 03:23:21 +0000 (UTC)
qickless@fastmail.fm (Qickless) wrote in news:3afd5cdb.0206012229.2a0127ec@posting.google.com:
That's a really good thought - and I like the theme of mental conflict. I think you're on to something here.
It is good, too, to make a concrete action symbolic.
Either I am being stupid, or you are making the reader work a little too hard.
O.
From: Qickless
Re: Not Right, by Qickless
Date: 3 Jun 2002 23:14:09 -0700
Celia,
I'll try harder next time, what you say about the key is very interesting. And O, to understand one should try first, and you're doing one heck of a job at deciphering meanings in my measly story.
Bye!
Qickless
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