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From: Conjugate
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:36:27 -0400
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote in message news:uj5gaprhb5ga31@news.supernews.com ...
This week we have 2 submissions to the FT. This first submission is a complete story at 3,673 words by Shon Richards: An interracial couple meet and remininisce about their past.
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive suggestions
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
FishTank submissions and responses may be found at:
http://www.asstr.org/~Desdmona/FishTank/base
Questions, concerns, suggestions, or submissions may be directed to:
me@desdmona.com or Desdmona22@aol.com
****************************************** Lovers, Fantasies and Realities (MF Rom) By Shon Richards shonrichardshsd@earthlink.net
Exquisite. I thought it was terrific. Let's see ... Positive suggestions include the observation that the interracial nature of the affair was brilliant, and really made the story about a pair of heroic-fantasy lovers sparkle. Or perhaps the fact that they were both heroic-fantasy fans made the interracial story sparkle; take your pick. The dialog was great, the near-interruption by the father was nicely timed.
Two small flaws: One was this sentence.
That thought was destroyed when her bright eyes looked at me with something I hoped was I love.
The next-to-last word might be omitted, or perhaps you want to add "you" and a pair of quotes, as: " ...with something I hoped was 'I love you.' " Like that.
The other flaw (if it is): the bed creaks a long time before Daddy shows up. I expected him to ask a question much sooner than he did, when the protagonist said that:
The bed creaked. We had long ago discovered that the slightest creak brought questions from her sleeping parents next door.
Technically, the questions would not have come from sleeping parents, but I suppose that's really nitpicky. It was clear what you meant. But I would have had her father show up, or at least make some noise, about then.
Otherwise, nicely done.
Conjugate
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:12:12 -0500
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:27:30 GMT, souvien22@yahoo.com (Souvie) wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:24:10 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
This week we have 2 submissions to the FT. This first submission is a complete story at 3,673 words by Shon Richards: An interracial couple meet and remininisce about their past.
Improvement: I found one grammatical error that jumped out at me. It's a small thing, but because of John and his harping on me for doing the same thing, I noticed it. lol
I had to look away. "I thought you had made your choice. I didn't have the guts to write back and when you never didn't either, I thought that was the end of the story."
If you "never didn't" then you did.
Of course. But it is in dialog, and sometimes it feels better to write it the way he said it. Even though he most likely knows better, sometimes people don't use proper grammar. Especially with childhood friends.
In the South, "never didn't" is probably proper grammar anyway. You have to deal with the language of the country, you know?
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Souvie
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:07:40 GMT
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:12:12 -0500, Jeff Zephyr <jeffzeph@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:27:30 GMT, souvien22@yahoo.com (Souvie) wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:24:10 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
This week we have 2 submissions to the FT. This first submission is a complete story at 3,673 words by Shon Richards: An interracial couple meet and remininisce about their past.
Improvement: I found one grammatical error that jumped out at me. It's a small thing, but because of John and his harping on me for doing the same thing, I noticed it. lol
I had to look away. "I thought you had made your choice. I didn't have the guts to write back and when you never didn't either, I thought that was the end of the story."
If you "never didn't" then you did.
Of course. But it is in dialog, and sometimes it feels better to write it the way he said it. Even though he most likely knows better, sometimes people don't use proper grammar. Especially with childhood friends.
In the South, "never didn't" is probably proper grammar anyway. You have to deal with the language of the country, you know?
lol True, but these two characters seem very educated; not the type to make such a mistake. Just what it seems to me.
- Souvie
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:49:48 -0500
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:07:40 GMT, souvien22@yahoo.com (Souvie) wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:12:12 -0500, Jeff Zephyr <jeffzeph@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:27:30 GMT, souvien22@yahoo.com (Souvie) wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:24:10 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
This week we have 2 submissions to the FT. This first submission is a complete story at 3,673 words by Shon Richards: An interracial couple meet and remininisce about their past.
Improvement: I found one grammatical error that jumped out at me. It's a small thing, but because of John and his harping on me for doing the same thing, I noticed it. lol
I had to look away. "I thought you had made your choice. I didn't have the guts to write back and when you never didn't either, I thought that was the end of the story."
If you "never didn't" then you did.
Of course. But it is in dialog, and sometimes it feels better to write it the way he said it. Even though he most likely knows better, sometimes people don't use proper grammar. Especially with childhood friends.
In the South, "never didn't" is probably proper grammar anyway. You have to deal with the language of the country, you know?
lol True, but these two characters seem very educated; not the type to make such a mistake. Just what it seems to me.
I think we need to leave this one to the author. Of course, sure, it is wrong. Sometimes I've let my "bad talking" grammar stand, others I've corrected it. Even if the characters could have said it, it might distract or confuse the reader.
I've known a lot of "very educated" people who make no end of grammar mistakes. Education, and even a knowledge of grammar, doesn't always stop the use of the wrong forms. Especially if they are popularly used, and are part of your childhood language.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Tesseract
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: 16 Jul 2002 23:46:40 -0700
Jeff Zephyr <jeffzeph@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3d34870d$0$1425$272ea4a1@news.execpc.com> ...
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:07:40 GMT, souvien22@yahoo.com (Souvie) wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:12:12 -0500, Jeff Zephyr <jeffzeph@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:27:30 GMT, souvien22@yahoo.com (Souvie) wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:24:10 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
This week we have 2 submissions to the FT. This first submission is a complete story at 3,673 words by Shon Richards: An interracial couple meet and remininisce about their past.
Improvement: I found one grammatical error that jumped out at me. It's a small thing, but because of John and his harping on me for doing the same thing, I noticed it. lol
I had to look away. "I thought you had made your choice. I didn't have the guts to write back and when you never didn't either, I thought that was the end of the story."
If you "never didn't" then you did.
Of course. But it is in dialog, and sometimes it feels better to write it the way he said it. Even though he most likely knows better, sometimes people don't use proper grammar. Especially with childhood friends.
In the South, "never didn't" is probably proper grammar anyway. You have to deal with the language of the country, you know?
lol True, but these two characters seem very educated; not the type to make such a mistake. Just what it seems to me.
I think we need to leave this one to the author. Of course, sure, it is wrong. Sometimes I've let my "bad talking" grammar stand, others I've corrected it. Even if the characters could have said it, it might distract or confuse the reader.
I've known a lot of "very educated" people who make no end of grammar mistakes. Education, and even a knowledge of grammar, doesn't always stop the use of the wrong forms. Especially if they are popularly used, and are part of your childhood language.
Maybe Fish Tank Rules should be slightly modified to allow the author to respond with "Oops! That was a typo. It should have been <fitb>." This might reduce speculation about what the author meant when it was just a typing mistake. Of course, if the author does not respond then we can assume the author meant it as written. Then there is the school of thought that just because the author wrote the story does not mean the author knows what the story is about.
Tesseract
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:42:15 -0500
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:24:10 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
First off, I really loved the whole friendship is love thing in the story. As a serious fantasy fan, I got all of the references. The whole relationship was about as joyful and happy as those I had, where my friends really did understand and like what I liked.
The relationship captured the whole forbiddenness of their situation too. It doesn't matter that in the "North" - around where I live for example - there would be no barrier against their relationship. No more than any other teens, at least; interracial dating is so common as to merit little mention, at least for city people. When I was a teen, it was still often an issue, but not sufficient to be a real barrier. I didn't try to explain that to my parents, but then I didn't try to explain much else of my love life either.
For teens now, it really isn't an issue. Makes it seem like a story set in the past, though of course maybe the south in a Black college town might feel like it is in the past (or any other small town for that matter).
I loved the climbing up the tree thing. That is part of the forbidden situation, but it is something that just never quite came up in my life. Those trees and windows which were conveniently accessible belonged to girls I wasn't that interested in, and walking home from school and playing on the weekends gave sufficient safe shared times, no need to risk a clandestine entry.
But I can imagine doing it, and in the story it works out so perfectly. A fine way to do a secret meeting, even if I do imagine that someone might have noticed it. But maybe, the house is placed right, the parents busy enough or whatever, and it just wasn't that big a risk.
The ending set off the entire piece, too. Makes the title perfect.
Finding things to improve is harder. The setting is such that it could be true, racism isn't dead despite some work to kill it. But one thing which does stand out some is how they never seen each other unclothed. That could happen. But it feels unlikely that neither one would have failed to bring the possibility up.
It sure takes some time for people to figure out their relationships. But a lot of boys, and many girls, would certainly want at least a look at what they were touching. Even if both are kind of innocent, and it took college and separation to change that, the temptation would be there.
They do get in a line which I've heard before - the bit about it being so good to do, and why didn't we do it before. But somewhere right in there, I think that one or both might reveal that they'd been thinking about it all along. At that point, the "why" explaining thing, letting us know why they didn't (other than just shyness), would help.
Maybe they were worried about parents catching them? But that is a risk even with quiet talking and touching, not that much increased by other exposure. It makes me wonder.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Bradley Stoke
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: 16 Jul 2002 02:09:45 -0700
Shon
When I started reading this story I thought <groan!> it's going to be one of those tedious fantasy stories of mystical damsels, errant knights and sex with dwarfs (I guess!) I've never really been that keen on the genre since I was a child and read and re-read all those Narnia novels. I've often wondered why, given the infinite scope of the imagination and of fantastic worlds to roam around in, that fantasy is so circumscribed with predictable things. Okay. There's the "Wizard of Earthsea", the "Lord of the Rings" and enough Anne McAffrey novels to sink a ship, but I've kept that stuff at some remove. Not like Aaron, that's for sure.
But despite my initial prejudices, I got to rather like the story. I quite liked the idea of a childhood romance across the colour divide in the racially prejudiced Southern states. And I got to quite understand why Kendra might actually be quite fond of someone as soppily romantic as Aaron, who quite clearly has sipped rather too deeply of the draft of door-stopping trilogies. Who couldn't fail to have some affection for the silly boy?
So, what did I like? Well, more than I expected. I liked the way the story started by going up a tree and finishing by coming down it. Very reminiscent of that story of the woman with the long hair whom I'm sure a million fantasy fans can instantly name. I thought that was neat.
And another thing I liked? I quite liked Kendra's personality. She was a much more real character to me than self-obsessed Aaron. How could Aaron have had those handjobs for all those years and not suspect that Kendra might want something in return? Not even a kiss! Let alone a bit of cunnilingus. Perhaps if Aaron had stopped fantasising about Galadriel and the nymphs of Xanth, he could have had a much better time? But that of course, is what this story's all about.
What to improve? Well, the sex was well judged (I thought) and it's not often I like the sex much. I thought the conversation dragged a bit. Perhaps a bit of tidying up could be achieved by spelling out rather less and implying rather more. For instance, we know Kendra's black. We don't need to be reminded of it too many times. And, yes, black women can be beautiful. In fact, on the whole, they have the edge over white ones. But do we have to have it underlined so thickly?
Another thing I wasn't so sure about was how Kendra seemed to share Aaron's familiarity with all this fantasy nonsense. A suitcase weighing more than the "Dragon of the North"? Bloody hell! I thought she was the sensible one! Perhaps the two characters could become more distinct if only one of them lived in a world of princesses, wizards, orcs and, I don't know, novels with detailed maps on the frontispiece.
On the whole, not a bad story at all. More Kendra please.
Bradley Stoke
http://www.asstr.org/~Bradley_Stoke
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: 16 Jul 2002 14:00:18 GMT
I didn't like this very much the first time I read it. I thought the dialogue was awkward, the pace a little slow. I thought it got better near the end, the sex and after. Then I read the whole story a second time start to finish, and I liked it all. So what does that mean? Maybe I was in too much of a hurry the first time. Maybe I was trying to read with too critical an eye, and it spoiled my pleasure and the story. Maybe I was looking for the fishtank. Okay, there are a few proofreading things, missing words and such. And maybe in a few places the dialogue is a little too much, stilted, trying to convey too much backstory. But all in all I now think this story is very satisfying. (Is this a useful response?)
I am surprised at the title. Shon is known for great titles. This one seems to come from some dry college soc text. Kind of clever in its way.
- Mat Twassel
Mat's Erotic Calendar at http://calendar.atEros.com
From: PleaseCain
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: 17 Jul 2002 04:01:56 GMT
At first, the upper-case Princesses and the preponderance of cliquish sword-and-sorcerers references grated on me, but then I realized that they represent the brilliance of kids (and creative writers), cloaking and embedding their awkwardness, unpopularity or a forbidden interracial crush, in their mutual love of fantasy books - man, that kind of quirky idealism gets you through high school. I haven't seen this done on the newsgroups before. Yet more evidence of Shon's giant imagination.
The clandestine sex is nice too, suffused with urgency.
This has been mentioned earlier, but I'll second it as an important point: the dialogue seems labored, overstuffed with narrative information. You can get away with weaving some history into the conversation, but too much of the "Remember when we ..." and "Sure, and after that I ..." gives the game away to the reader pretty quick. Such dialogue just doesn't sound like people talking. More like androids lugging around a mattress. It's something I'm still learning myself. Maybe reading the dialogue aloud might prove useful.
The opening tripped me up. That the last time he climbed he was too young, and this time too old, fine. But then we learn that, in climbing, the difference between too young and too old is a mere four years. The way it was phrased, I had somehow equated too young with a teenager, and too old with maybe ... 40. Talk about a rough four years: here's a dude who really partied in college! It made me reread a few times. All a matter of perspective though, I suppose.
This is another fun story. Thank you for sharing it with us.
Cain
From: Desert Don
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: 17 Jul 2002 05:14:53 -0700
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote in message news:<uj5gaprhb5ga31@news.supernews.com> ...
This week we have 2 submissions to the FT. This first submission is a complete story at 3,673 words by Shon Richards: An interracial couple meet and remininisce about their past.
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive suggestions
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities (MF Rom) By Shon Richards
After reading the several postings to date I'm a little anxious about the length of my response here but nothing ventured ...
A moving idea à la Romeo and Juliette - the forbidden fruit. Rich vs. poor, Black vs. White. This time the lovers get away in love and, more importantly, alive. The title covers it all. A nice new approach. "We looked at each other in comfortable silence. I don't know about her, but for me I understood why I had been so restless the past few years. Looking into her brown eyes, I knew that there was one less mystery in the world." Pretty. Poignant.
First read: typos & simple stuff:
"You're looking good," Kendra whispered. "What a minute, you've got pecs! ? Wait a minute?
I didn't have the guts to write back and when you never didn't either, I thought that was the end of the story." Never didn't? <this has been covered but I see these two as college grads with an English major for each. If this is colloquial speech it should be set off in single quotes at least to let the reader know that you're goofing around. Further comment on this later.>
That thought was destroyed when her bright eyes looked at me with something I hoped was I love. There is an extra "I" in that sentence. I hoped was love?
I tried to sip up and failed.
sit?
I dropped down to the ground and froze as I heard a sound [that] I had heard often in my nightmares-the sound of the front door opening. Needs a double hyphen at least. I think an 'm' dash would be correct.
Second read mechanics:
It's one of the reasons I sneaked into her bedroom every night for two
years in High School.
Tense problem. Should be 'had sneaked'. I don't think that you can use
the idea of colloquial speech to cover this since they, as we will
soon find out, are both English majors and should know better. Either
that or they were lousy students.
"The bed creaked." I don't think you mean this the way it is written. I think you intend to tell us that Kendra had a noisy bed; not one that is actually making noise right now. You want to say that Kendra had a noisy bed and for that reason you were avoiding it.
"I was back in town to visit my parents," I explained. "After telling me about cousin Greg marrying a Jewish girl and cousin Wesley marrying a doctor, she mentioned that you had come back to town." 'She' refers back to parents? Greg? Wesley? A Jewish girl? You probably should use 'my mother' - if that's whom you mean.
Suddenly, her hips froze and I sucked hard on her emerged clitoris. emerged clitoris? There is something about 'emerged clitoris' that makes my Broca's area stumble. Try saying it out loud with proper enunciation and perhaps you will see what I'm getting at. (I Know I ended that line with a preposition ...)How about exposed, revealed, budding, swollen or engorged? Somehow I think 'exposed' or 'budding' is the sense you are aiming for….
I loved the feel of her smooth skin, softer than any of my dreams. My dreams were soft? Perhaps, for a simple fix: "I loved the feel of her smooth skin; softer than [in] any of my dreams."
If we're going to live together, Aaron, you have to learn to separate fact from fantasy!" Mixed tenses? I think it should be 'you will' or 'you'll' (if you don't mind the elision). The latter form is frequently mispronounced (actually, not adequately enunciated) and thus the ease with which it is incorrectly written.
Third reading:
By the time I get halfway into the story I am envisioning our
principal characters as being in their thirties. They are 'too old',
gaining weight, have wrinkles. I am then told that high school was
only a couple of years ago, both have a penchant for heroic tales and
are willing to act them out- i.e. fencing lessons and consequently (at
least Aaron should be) 'fit'. They are also still very much under the
control of their parents and, racial biases aside, are not being
treated as mature adults. This leads me to conclude that they are in
their early to mid twenties. Which is it really? I think I would tone
down the 'old' aspect and play up the 'foolish' or 'probably futile'
angle.
Kendra seems rather mercurial. Why? Can we get some more background to account for this emotional lability?
There is no mention of Aaron's father. Is he dead? I'm still worrying the parental control issue here.
Our hero is rather innocent. He misses the double -entendre, "I guess I wanted to see if you would come," Kendra sighed." They have both been away to and graduated from college so I think they should have gained a little more worldliness. It's touching that they are so innocent with each other but with regard to how they face the rest of their universe they shouldn't be.
Kendra's parents have very selective hearing it seems. On one hand they can hear 'the slightest creak' and yet dad, standing outside the door can't hear their conversation. The initial speeches don't sound like they were controlled i.e. 'growled', 'snapped', 'swore' so this is a bit of an inconsistency. Time to quit, I'm way over my limit.
DD
From: dennyw
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 12:55:03 -0700
On 17 Jul 2002 05:14:53 -0700, shuswap69@hotmail.com (Desert Don) held forth, saying:
I dropped down to the ground and froze as I heard a sound [that] I had heard often in my nightmares-the sound of the front door opening. Needs a double hyphen at least. I think an 'm' dash would be correct.
Minor point - for Usenet, a double hyphen is the emdash equivalent. :) (and I agree with DD's remarks)
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it."
- G.B. Shaw
From: Ray
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 20:23:29 -0400
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:24:10 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com>
wrote:
This week we have 2 submissions to the FT. This first submission is a complete story at 3,673 words by Shon Richards: An interracial couple meet and remininisce about their past.
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive suggestions
Since Don decided to do a complete, more thorough review, we can mostly count out the no repeat ruling, except that I don't think I need to.
Positive comments:
Like everyone else, I enjoyed the basic theme and the primary characters in this story. I both loved and disliked the first paragraph of the story, so it fits both categories. I loved the final line "My imagination used to speculate on which my parents would take the hardest - the fact that I was dead or the fact that I was sneaking into the bedroom of a black girl." It sets the theme for the whole story and you don't let us down.
I also loved the final line .... "If we're going to live together, Aaron, you have to learn to separate fact from fantasy!" Considering the areas their conversations and past associations had mostly carried them, this was a perfect 'left field' ending.
Two suggestions:
The first one is kind of multiple, but it all concerns the first paragraph: In the above line I 'liked' so much, I really find the sentence too "round-about" in getting where it is going. Instead of "My mind used to speculate on which ..." I think the more simple "I used to imagine which ..." would work better. Simpler, as I said, and more straight forward. The other niggling little thing about the paragraph involves the tree climbing. From the final paragraphs, they are only a year or two out of college, and he is 'too old' to climb trees. The next sentence says his last time climbing that same tree he had been 'too young'; yet it is established later that he was doing it during his senior year in High School. When was he the right age?
My second suggestion is another personal thing ... something I always find myself guilty of: There are too many "thats" in the story. (i.e. "All I noticed was that you were having wild sex with him in your dorm room and that you guys were planning to spend the summer together ..." The second 'that' is not necessary. Would read just fine without it. A little earlier, the sentence Dan liked so much: "Looking into her brown eyes, I knew that there was one less mystery in the world." Again, the 'that' is unnecessary ..... "I knew there was one less mystery in the world."
Really, I found a lot more than what has been mentioned so far, even with Dan making 17 points. I don't remember, has anyone corrected the spelling of "Hippie" yet?
I thoroughly enjoyed the story, but I think it needs a very careful read through for little things.
Even with it all, Shon writes good. :))
Ray
From: Uther Pendragon
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: 18 Jul 2002 10:42:58 -0600
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
Lovers, Fantasies and Realities (MF Rom) By Shon Richards shonrichardshsd@earthlink.net ******************************************
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive suggestions
(I don't think "suggestions" is le mot juste (just the word) right here.
1) This is a great version of interracial. The usual ASS* version is just spewing hate. The one often expressed in ASSD is spewing utopia. It matters; whether it matters to the couple or not, it sure-as-hell matters to the people around them.
2) The two had nothing in common but a shared interest in fantasy fiction. So, when they probably had broadened their tastes in other contexts, they stuck close to what they had shared in their pasts when together.
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
1) The "too old" and "too young" to climb trees has been mentioned before. I would change it to something like: "It had been four years since I'd climbed this tree, any tree. All I could remember of the route was how hard it had been the first time - I hadn't been the kind of kid who was always climbing trees."
2) I would make the connection between their relation to fantasy fiction and their relation to each other more explicit. "Every time I read XXXX I wasn't picturing YYYY, I was picturing her."
Uther Pendragon FAQs http://www.nyx.net/~anon584c anon584c@nyx.net fiqshn http://www.asstr.org/~Uther_Pendragon
From: Selena Jardine
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: 18 Jul 2002 13:05:46 -0700
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote in message news:<uj5gaprhb5ga31@news.supernews.com> ...
This week we have 2 submissions to the FT. This first submission is a complete story at 3,673 words by Shon Richards: An interracial couple meet and remininisce about their past.
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive suggestions
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
Nitpicks, to start out with (eat your spinach, Selena) :
1) I enjoyed the way the couple shared memories of reading all those fantasy novels together. The books are very much a part of their lives, their imaginations and their relationship. That's well-judged. I do think that you ought to be careful not to overdo it. There are just a few places where I think you step over the line, and it's no longer reminiscences or conversation but third-person stuff: "Realization struck like a blast of fire from a dragon," for instance. Just a little over the top. Keep it toned down just a wee smidgen and it will seem more believable to a wider audience.
2) It seems to me that the narrator swings a little bit too much in his attitude toward Kendra. Is she "just a wonderful friend," as he says at one point? The love of his life? The One That Got Away? Could a guy ever forget for one minute that she gave him a whole bunch of handjobs in high school? (What's the collective noun for handjobs? A mess of handjobs?) There she is, in a revealing nightie, and he's sort of going, dum de dum ... until Kendra practically jumps him. Hello?!? I'd like to get more of a sense of purpose from Aaron. We get it right at the beginning - "Kendra and I always thought alike. It's one of the reasons I sneaked into her bedroom every night for two years in High School. Well, that and the handjobs." That's bang-on perfect. Let's see more of that.
Nice moments, now (time for dessert!) :
1) I really like the give-and-take between the two lovers, the comfortable conversation even when they're discussing really important things or ... well ... feeling each other up. I have relationships that pick up right where they left off, too, even if years have elapsed. (Usually in my own experience they don't involve groping, but that's not to say that this seems unrealistic.) With the exception of a couple of small rough patches, the dialogue was really well done.
2) I just plain like the happy ending. You've skilfully made it plain throughout the story what these two are up against, and Kendra seems like a strong enough person that when she makes up her mind, it's made up. I didn't expect her to change it, much less come striding out the front door. It made me grin and hope they'd make it.
Thanks for letting us read this, Shon!
Selena
selenajardine@yahoo.com
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: 18 Jul 2002 21:02:29 GMT
Selena said, prompting this aside:
(What's the collective noun for handjobs? A mess of handjobs?)
It depends on whether they were concentrated in a short span, or just came in spurts. Were there more than a handful? Less than a gross?
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners never die; they just don't get to go down as often."
<I>"This communicating of a man's self to his friend works two contrary
effects, for it redoubleth joys, and cutteth griefs in half." - Francis Bacon,
Essays </I>
From: john
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: 19 Jul 2002 11:26:06 -0700
Lovers, Fantasies and Realities (MF Rom) by Shon Richards
[I'll beg forgiveness in advance; I didn't change this after reading the other reviews, even though I fear I've added little new. I've been too long on the road; I'm too impatient to catch up with the last six weeks of things to think original ideas.]
Two things about the tense bothered me [There must be another John that "harps" at Souvie; this one has barely "strummed" about grammar.] and, I think, cast a formality on the story that may have been unintentional: consistency and contractions. For example in paragraph #1 [already on the operating table with Drs. Ray and Uther wielding scalpels].
I was too old to be climbing trees. I was too young the last time I climbed this tree. I had often wondered what would the police have thought if I fell and they had to come out and to collect my broken body. My imagination used to speculate on which my parents would take the hardest- the fact that I was dead or the fact that I was sneaking into the bedroom of a black girl.
It might be more readable and more interesting as:
I was too old to be climbing the tree. I'd been too young the last time that I'd done it. I'd often wondered what the police would've thought if I'd fallen and they'd come out to collect my broken body. I've speculated on which my parents would have taken the hardest - the fact I'd died or the fact I'd been sneaking into the bedroom of a black girl.
A first person story needs to read, I think, conversationally. Because the dramatic opening in the tree involves memories / speculations about the past, it's especially important to get the tenses right.
For me, it's a bit lengthy. There is an excess of background, both theoretical and historical. It seems tedious to have the characters rehash their time and place [as Brad and Matt and PleaseCain all elucidated more clearly than I] even though it may be justified by the four year absence. It's essential that a writer have all that stuff well in mind, but it can be a drag for the reader to have it presented so explicitly in conversation. Some things are better "shown" than "told." An edit seems in order.
I thought the protagonists, Kendra and Aaron, were interesting and had a reality that transcended the writing. I enjoyed reading about them, even if I had problems with the way they were drawn. [Things like K's lack of knowledge about Northern mores or A's reaction to "nigger" may or may not be as awkward as they seemed to me at first; in truth they were much less significant than the bigger, lovelier picture of the couple.] Writing about inter-racial/ cultural situations call for a maturity that few possess [as Conjugate and Jeff and Uther all detected]. I thought the essentials were all there, and that's no mean feat.
The plot was well done. The story seriously tried to build tension, contained real action, and brought things together in a logical conclusion. I got involved in it because the elements were there, because the conflict was apparent from the start and each scene, in its own way, built toward the climax. [In another, clearer, way, Selena said that too.]
Thanks for a good read, Shon. [And thanks to the good reviewers. Next time I may just read your comments and keep my mouth shut.]
John
From: Always Horny
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:50:33 +0200
Gary Jordan wrote:
Selena said, prompting this aside:
(What's the collective noun for handjobs? A mess of handjobs?)
It depends on whether they were concentrated in a short span, or just came in spurts. Were there more than a handful? Less than a gross?
A fistful?
AH
A_H_01 at hotmail. com
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: 21 Jul 2002 19:35:54 GMT
Gary Jordan wrote:
Selena said, prompting this aside:
(What's the collective noun for handjobs? A mess of handjobs?)
It depends on whether they were concentrated in a short span, or just came in spurts. Were there more than a handful? Less than a gross?
A fistful?
AH
Or maybe a clutch.
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners never die; they just don't get to go down as often."
<I>"This communicating of a man's self to his friend works two contrary
effects, for it redoubleth joys, and cutteth griefs in half." - Francis Bacon,
Essays </I>
From: dennyw
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:24:15 -0700
On 21 Jul 2002 19:35:54 GMT, pjcocoa@aol.come.to.bed (Gary Jordan) held forth, saying:
Or maybe a clutch.
Of fire-lizard eggs????
(HINT!)
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it."
- G.B. Shaw
From: Desdmona
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 12:14:18 -0400
Lovers, Fantasies and Realities (MF Rom) By Shon Richards shonrichardshsd@earthlink.net
Shon~
I really like this story! It's a keeper. I think there are little things that are worth taking care of, most being mentioned by others so I won't rehash. But I do think it's important to add these mentioned things are worth addressing because as I said, I really like this story! Imagine its potential.
One suggestion that I might add is the checking paragraphs/sentences where you've used the same word more than once. One example, "I touched her lips and ran my thumb over her lip." You can easily just say, "I ran my thumb over her lip, touching, feeling, learning." Or some such thing. Anyway, you get the idea. Whenever a word or idea is repeated it takes away from the impact of what is being said.
The age thing has been addressed as well, but being a woman, I think it's my duty to question, You gave her wrinkles at age 24 or so? <sigh> That sort of bites. Maybe she can show a few years by some other means - different hair, smoother skin, less make-up. I don't know, something besides adding wrinkles to a recent college grad.
Kendra is what makes this story. She's well developed. She's the young girl that still uses obscure swear words (genius touch) and yet has experienced enough of the world to say things like, "Which is why I lo-like you." Kendra said. "You believe that!" or "I'm no heroine ..." She's smart, she's funny, she's real and still hangs on to fantasy. She's great!
I want to also agree with the comments made of how you've handled the interracial issue. I think that generally speaking, society accepts things that were once taboo, but when that taboo is being breeched on a personal level, it gets stickier. Parents still have expectations, children still fear parental reaction. To have glossed over this, or completely ignored it would have been a disservice to the story. Well done!
And the ending. Marvelous. It would have been so easy to let that one reunion be the end. But there is hope. There's always hope that love can conquer anything. And you left us feeling like it might be possible again.
Thanks so much, Shon. I know you've debated over submitting to the FishTank, but I am certainly glad you did. I hope you've found the experience to be helpful.
Des
From: Always Horny
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 20:13:04 +0200
Lovers, Fantasies and Realities (MF Rom) By Shon Richards shonrichardshsd@earthlink.net
1) 2 positive suggestions
The story you tell is sweet and tender.
I like the descriptives and the rhythm. They keep the reader in even through the unpleasant moments.
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
She was prettier than Galadriel and lovelier then any nymph from Xanth.
Isn't this and the ensuing paragraph a little "purple"?
Her tongue danced playfully on the underside of my manhood.
Do you really think of your own as your "manhood"?
and a question:
Neither of us brought up defying our parents.
Did you mean this sentence like this or forgot a word? I dunno.
AH
A_H_01 at hotmail. com
From: dennyw
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 14:07:00 -0700
On Sat, 20 Jul 2002 20:13:04 +0200, Always.Horny@no.spam.thanks (Always Horny) held forth, saying:
and a question:
Neither of us brought up defying our parents. Did you mean this sentence like this or forgot a word? I dunno.
Hm. AH doesn't say what word might have been forgotten. Perhaps 'was' just before 'brought up'? (anyway, that's where I'm working from)
I think the following sentence made it clear: "Neither of us brought up defying our parents. Some acts of courage can't be attempted even in conversations."
'brought up' meaning 'raised the subject' - not 'brought up' as 'was raised' (maybe this is an idiomatic usage AH hasn't met before?)
Now, he might indeed have meant ' ...was brought up defying ...' - though Shon more like would've said 'neither of us was brought up to defy' - Shon's skillful, and I think would use the better construction.
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it."
- G.B. Shaw
From: Ray
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 00:00:42 -0400
<dennyw@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.invalid> wrote in message news:l0kjjuoqefq6qsoh14a15vmkvj8tichpnm@4ax.com ...
On Sat, 20 Jul 2002 20:13:04 +0200, Always.Horny@no.spam.thanks (Always Horny) held forth, saying:
'brought up' meaning 'raised the subject' - not 'brought up' as 'was raised' (maybe this is an idiomatic usage AH hasn't met before?)
Now, he might indeed have meant ' ...was brought up defying ...' - though Shon more like would've said 'neither of us was brought up to defy' - Shon's skillful, and I think would use the better construction.
Or, he could have been thinking more like:
The thing neither of us brought up 'was' defying our parents. Some acts of courage can't be attempted, even in conversation.
If it was spelled out just that little touch extra, there would have been no confusion.
Ray
From: Always Horny
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:50:32 +0200
Ray wrote:
<dennyw wrote
'brought up' meaning 'raised the subject' - not 'brought up' as 'was raised'
Or, he could have been thinking more like:
The thing neither of us brought up 'was' defying our parents. Some acts of courage can't be attempted, even in conversation.
If it was spelled out just that little touch extra, there would have been no confusion.
Right.
It's just that it seems such a gross overstatement to me that I could not think
this is what was meant. After all, both youngsters completed college, right? so
they must have went through the 15-20yo stage. And they never even consider
"defying" decisions from their parents? Wow.
Even taking into account a different cultural background (I imagine the setting
is the Deep South with all its backwards ponderousness) and a even with a lot of
artistic license, this is just beyond what's imaginable for me.
And I am not sure it fits so well in a story that is otherwise not so much into oversized metaphors ...
Besides, this comes from a guy who just climbed walls again to go see his gal against his Mom's will. Does it compute? not for me.
But my point was just to highlight the doubt.
AH
A_H_01 at hotmail. com
From: Shon Richards
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:43:28 GMT
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote in message news:uj5gaprhb5ga31@news.supernews.com ...
This week we have 2 submissions to the FT. This first submission is a complete story at 3,673 words by Shon Richards: An interracial couple meet and remininisce about their past.
First of all I want to thank everyone who took the time to read this story and give me feedback here in the tank. I have long equated being in the fishtank to being in the infamous "barrel" but I found it to be not unpleasant at all.
This story came to me while I was doing Flash stories and I knew it was too long to write in a single sitting. Oddly enough it stuck in my head to the point that I couldn't write anything else till I got it out. After it was done, I really didn't like it. I couldn't put my finger on why I didn't like it and thought if that didn't qualify as a fishtank story I don' t know what will.
Souvie- I'm glad you liked the sex. To me, sex is the 2nd reason to write these things J As for the negative of "never didn't" I can only say that it is common grammar for my house. Man, we really are hicks <g>
Ray- I'm delighted you liked the final line since I wrote it first. I also hated the first paragraph and chopped it up and re-chopped it so many times I could no longer be objective about it. Now I know it still needs work <g>
Conjugate- I have no idea where the funk the "I" came from in "with something I hoped was I love." Well. I blame the Fey folk. You also have a good point with the father showing up sooner. I think I will slice him in sooner since we all know how annoyingly inconvenient parents can be.
Jeff- I'm glad you got all of the fantasy refrences but I am annoyed that my proofer chopped out "By the Light!" when Aaron is climbing the tree. That is one of the few I actually use in real life lol. As for why they never got naked before, I must have ran in more chicken-shit circles than you. Talking to my friends, we all had an insane story about what was taboo and what was okay in our teen relationships. The funniest I remember was a guy who's girlfriend would go down on him, but absolutely refused to take off her bra. I know now that just because it happened to me and people I know, doesn't mean it happened to everyone and is therefore not automatically believable.
Bradley- "When I started reading this story I thought <groan!> it's going to beone of those tedious fantasy stories of mystical damsels, errantknights and sex with dwarfs" I forgive you for that. Just so you know <g> do yourself a favor and read "American Gods" by Neil Gaiman and see what fantasy has been up to.
"She was a much more real character to me than self-obsessed Aaron." Oh shit, you're right lol. Obviously I was more concerned with Kendra and that's not good.
"Another thing I wasn't so sure about was how Kendra seemed to share Aaron's familiarity with all this fantasy nonsense."- I still forgive you.
Mat- It tickled me that you didn't like at first either. Then you warmed up to it. What sinister power does this story hold? I thought of you while I was writing this because I didn't think a story told strictly through chatting would work but then I remembered that your stories tend to go that way. Maybe I'm remembering them wrong, but I seem to remember a Celeste story that was just one long conversation at a beach resort. You inspired your negative for this story <g>
Yes, I failed with the Title. I wanted to do something to evoke the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe but for some reason, "The Princess, the Tree and the Handjobs" lost out to the one I picked.
Pleasecain- "At first, the upper-case Princesses and the preponderance of cliquish sword-and-sorcerers references grated on me, but then I realized that they represent the brilliance of kids (and creative writers), cloaking and embedding their awkwardness, unpopularity or a forbidden interracial crush, in their mutual love of fantasy books - man, that kind of quirky idealism gets you through high school." Dude, you're talking about my marriage. Lol. Seriously, our courtship was based in Zelzany's Amber series.
"the dialogue seems labored, overstuffed with narrative information." It was a bitch. I know some writers swear by flashbacks and showing rather than telling but after writing a hundred "show" stories, sometimes I want to see if its possible to tell a good "tell" story. I think I wanted to keep the story in the present because I feel if you watched them unfold over the years, you would expect them to get together in the end from the start. Maybe that's just me.
Desert Don- People have been sent to Mordor for less negatives than you heaped <g> I'll ignore the typos and address something I did learn from you and that was "where's Aaron's dad?" Neat question. Also, I did overdo it with making them seem decrepit right after college. I blame too many parties. I wrote this story a month after running into a high school buddy from 10 years ago and I put too much of his aging into a story where it didn 't belong. I'm also trying to figure why my mom could hear my bed creak but not hear me having phone sex with my high school girlfriend. I didn't realize I put that inconsistency in my story.
Uther- You are absolutely right in that I should have said "Every time I read XXXX I wasn't picturing YYYY, I was picturing her." I was going to put in a reference along those lines but chopped it out when I was trying to polish it. I knew I should have left it.
Selena- "There are just a few places where I think you step over the line, and it's no longer reminiscences or conversation but third-person stuff: "Realization struck like a blast of fire from a dragon,""- Gandalf's beard! You might be right. <g>
"It seems to me that the narrator swings a little bit too much in his attitude toward Kendra. Is she "just a wonderful friend," as he says at one point? The love of his life? The One That Got Away?"- Seriously, I gave myself a nasty bruise on the head when I read that. You' re right. A man who still climbs trees should have a more consistent view of the girl he's climbing with. I have no excuses lol
John- "It's essential that a writer have all that stuff well in mind, but it can be a drag for the reader to have it presented so explicitly in conversation" Neat point. I had these characters so firmly implanted that I often wondered when I should just shut up and have sex. I noticed when old friends get together they talk 70% about the past that they ALREADY shared rather than update each other. This might be true but does it make for a good story? I thought it might but often have my doubts.
"Things like K'slack of knowledge about Northern mores or A's reaction to "nigger" mayor may not be as awkward as they seemed to me at first;" -I have a black friend who went to Maine for the first time and he bored me to tears with stories of how they treated him differently than they did in North Carolina. I think he always suspected the North was nicer, but living here, he never could imagine it. His reactions were more interesting than his stories <g>
Desdemona-"One suggestion that I might add is the checking paragraphs/sentences whereyou've used the same word more than once." This is why I need a small army of editors. See, one editor needs to fix the typos, another editor needs to fix the typos and the third editor needs to fix the last straggling typos that plague my stories. I need a fourth one, who isn't exhausted by the typos, to check in things like that <g>
"You gave her wrinkles at age 24 or so? <sigh>" How about crow's feet? Maybe that's what I meant.
"Kendra is what makes this story. She's well developed. She's the young girl that still uses obscure swear words (genius touch)"- Kendra is a mix of my favorite loves. I have yet to fall for a girl who didn't use her own form of cuss-words.
"And the ending. Marvelous. It would have been so easy to let that one reunion be the end. But there is hope. There's always hope that love can conquer anything. And you left us feeling like it might be possible again." I debated that ended. Experience has taught me that the girl will stay in her house and I felt I would be lying to have her join him. On the other hand, G. K. Chesterton said "Fairy tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." I felt like I had to show that Love can be happy if just by example.
AlwaysHorny- "She was prettier than Galadriel and lovelier then any nymph from Xanth. Isn't this and the ensuing paragraph a little "purple"?"
Umm, what does 'purple' mean in this context? If you mean over the top, I can only sheepishly say "Yeah, I still like it"
"Do you really think of your own as your "manhood"?"- Hmm, I think of him as "Little Shon" but thought 'manhood' was better for mixed company. I almost went with 'sword' or 'Exaclibur' or 'One True Cock' but thought it would be over the top.
"Neither of us brought up defying our parents."
Umm, yep, I meant it like that lol. Sad, huh? I should start billing myself as the Hick Writer and people can attribute my bad grammar to my environment. It amazes me what I write and never blink twice about fixing for mass consumption.
Shon Richards
A good portion of my stories can be found at my never-finished website at
http://www.asstr.org/~ShonRichards/
All of them can be found through ftp at
http://www.asstr.org/files/Authors/ShonRichards/
From: dennyw
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:26:45 -0700
On Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:43:28 GMT, "Shon" <shonrichardshsd@earthlink.net> held forth, saying:
The funniest I remember was a
guy who's girlfriend would go down on him, but absolutely refused to take off her bra.
Yup. I have a similar teen memory - the girl loved to fuck, but would NOT allow her tits to be seen. (they sure felt nice - I never did figure it out)
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it."
- G.B. Shaw
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:08:05 -0500
On Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:43:28 GMT, "Shon" <shonrichardshsd@earthlink.net> wrote:
Jeff- I'm glad you got all of the fantasy refrences but I am annoyed that my proofer chopped out "By the Light!" when Aaron is climbing the tree. That is one of the few I actually use in real life lol. As for why they never got naked before, I must have ran in more chicken-shit circles than you. Talking to my friends, we all had an insane story about what was taboo and what was okay in our teen relationships. The funniest I remember was a guy who's girlfriend would go down on him, but absolutely refused to take off her bra. I know now that just because it happened to me and people I know, doesn't mean it happened to everyone and is therefore not automatically believable.
Those things are believable, you just have to work it into the situation with a bit more explanation. I don't know if it is circles, rather than couples. Many of my friends ran into situations with such odd rules about contact and exposure, and I had some relationships like that myself.
I was just lucky to find some nice early ones which didn't have such limits. There was a set of kids who just were happy getting all naked together. Conversely, there were some which could skip underwear and flash, but wouldn't (usually) get all naked under any circumstances. Same with the girls who always wore bras, and never got uncovered if it was light enough to see.
There was the girl that I liked a lot, who let me look but never touch. We could touch some with clothes on, but once they started slipping off, that was it, no more contact in any sensitive places.
There was also the wilder group (of which I seemed to be part of) which liked getting naked and doing it outside, or otherwise in public. Makes it a lot harder to be shy in private when you show it all outside.
But for me, getting to the nice getting naked together situation encouraged me to try for the same thing in later relationships. If that hadn't happened, going slower and working around the edges of what you're doing makes sense.
I still think that both of them would have thought about doing more, even if they didn't let themselves do it or say it.
"Neither of us brought up defying our parents."
Umm, yep, I meant it like that lol. Sad, huh? I should start billing myself as the Hick Writer and people can attribute my bad grammar to my environment. It amazes me what I write and never blink twice about fixing for mass consumption.
I don't know, what bad grammar? As an action, maybe it just needs something like "brought up the idea of ..."
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:50:07 -0500
On Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:26:45 -0700,
dennyw@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.invalid wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:43:28 GMT, "Shon" <shonrichardshsd@earthlink.net> held forth, saying:
The funniest I remember was a
guy who's girlfriend would go down on him, but absolutely refused to take off her bra.
Yup. I have a similar teen memory - the girl loved to fuck, but would NOT allow her tits to be seen. (they sure felt nice - I never did figure it out)
It's a girl thing :-)
Which particular reason she had I can't say. But there are a number of good ones, like being embarrassed about them for some reason, feeling that somehow getting all naked was sinful (but sex wasn't); that one explains why short dresses are OK but teeny tops aren't, bra padding? (but if you touched them directly that might not apply. Maybe other reasons too?
It doesn't matter what the reasons are, as long as they make sense. You can always ask, sometimes the embarrasment about the question explains it all anyway.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Always Horny
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:58:02 +0200
Shon wrote:
Umm, what does 'purple' mean in this context? If you mean over the top, I can only sheepishly say "Yeah, I still like it"
It's something I picked up here in a discussion some time ago. If I understood it right (and IIRC, too), it is referring to some cheapo novels with too many adjectives.
"Over the top" is a better descriptor, LOL.
AH
A_H_01 at hotmail. com
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From: Souvie
Re: Lovers, Fantasies, and Realities, by Shon Richards
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:27:30 GMT
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:24:10 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
Positive: The title just fits so perfectly. Ties in with Aaron and Kendra, their passion for fantasy books, and for the reality they now find themselves in.
Positive: Good imagey, especially during the sex scene. I liked the description of their contrasts. I could close my eyes and picture it perfectly in my head.
Improvement: I found one grammatical error that jumped out at me. It's a small thing, but because of John and his harping on me for doing the same thing, I noticed it. lol
If you "never didn't" then you did.
- Souvie