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From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 17:30:30 -0600
On Mon, 01 Jul 2002 16:58:28 GMT, Tenyari <tenyariNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
I'm curious on the viel she wore while dancing at the wedding. Don't most people change into a reception dress right after the ceremony and before any events?
Nope. Depends on the wedding, but often enough the bride wears the dress (maybe with the long train and veil off). Or maybe she put it back on just for the dance. It all depends on the style and situation.
Also, if this is a 1940s wedding - a guess on time frame - I'd expect a big ceremonial sort of reception. The wedding dress kind of fits right into that scene then.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: oosh
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 23:44:07 +0000 (UTC)
Tenyari <tenyariNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in news:3D208A93.80205@hotmail.com:
I'm curious on the viel she wore while dancing at the wedding. Don't most people change into a reception dress right after the ceremony and before any events?
Not in England. Most, if not all, brides will get changed before leaving the reception for the honeymoon, of course. And that tends to happen long before any dancing begins. Most couples seem to want to preserve their energies for another, much more private dance.
O.
From: dennyw
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 12:05:19 -0700
On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:07:03 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> held forth, saying:
First: I like the story; atmosphere is very nicely done.
to improve:
Sandy reached out for his hand, squeezing it. "It's okay. It's important to remember her that way. I'm not exactly a little kid anymore." She smirked.
'She smirked.' to me is very off-putting. Makes me think Sandy IS a little kid - and we know she's a friend of his married daughter. 'She gave a quirky smile.' or something similar has a better feel. - also, I quite dislike 'anymore'; but that applies every time I see it.
A body young enough to remember its soft curves but old enough to understand them as well.
I love this. Gives exactly the right feel to the scene.
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it."
- G.B. Shaw
From: Hamadryad73
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: 02 Jul 2002 03:24:42 GMT
Denny,
agreed. how does this sound?
~ "It's okay. It's important to remember her that way. I'm not exactly the little kid you remember." She pointed out softly. ~
Better?
Dryad
(and if i haven't said it ...thanks for all the great comments i'm hearing!!!)
From: dennyw
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 01:14:23 -0700
On 02 Jul 2002 03:24:42 GMT, hamadryad73@cs.com (Hamadryad73) held forth, saying:
Denny,
agreed. how does this sound?
~ "It's okay. It's important to remember her that way. I'm not exactly the little kid you remember." She pointed out softly. ~
Better?
Yes, with one minor quibble. [ ...remember," she ...] (that's a comma after 'remember')
Dryad
(and if i haven't said it ...thanks for all the great comments i'm hearing!!!)
methinks you've earned them. (though I will mention that the standard FT guideline is that you reply on Friday)
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it."
- G.B. Shaw
From: Tesseract
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: 2 Jul 2002 01:49:46 -0700
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote in message news:<ui0s0oq7eulrb5@news.supernews.com> ...
Gone (MF, traj, rom, first?)
By Dryad (gbbjg@yahoo.com)
I like the way you set the melancholy mood and keep it for the whole story. Other writers please note that he avoided the four letter vocabulary common to many stories around here. There is nothing wrong with that vocabulary except that in this case it would destroy the mood. And the words you chose, the sentence length, the pacing of the action, all help to maintain the mood.
Changes? Only a couple of technical things.
Her hands told him though, pressing him down her chest.
I think something got mangled here.
Laura.my Laura.she's gone.
Caps.
Tesseract
From: Bradley Stoke
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: 2 Jul 2002 10:48:07 -0700
Dryad
A sad evocative story of bereavement. And a very real kind of park with a fountain and squirrels. A story where the central character is believable and the setting is vivid.
My first positive comment relates to the tone which captures quite well a meandering, wistful mind, engrossed in its memories and relating everything that's seen to its memories. I liked the way the little details are slipped in like the "oversized purse" and the "half-filled box".
My second relates to the structure and pace. It started well, it continued in an unforced, almost leisurely pace, switching between memories and reality in an almost convincing way and its final paragraph arrived just when it should. Once started, the story followed its logical course.
My principal criticism is the actual central sex scene. I know there wouldn't be much of a sex story without sex, and I know that to a certain extent there would have been no story without it, but I had difficulty in believing it. There were a number of things which stretched my credibility. First was how apparently effortless it was. ("Hi there, Mr Allard. Do you like my perky, damp nipples? Shall we get in on?") The second was the age difference. I'm not sure which war was meant in this account, but my guess is that the protagonist would be at least in his late 40s. Perhaps I live in a different world but do young women really go after older men with so little excuse? Perhaps they do. Perhaps old age isn't such a bad thing! The third was the setting. Whenever I've had sex in parks (or wherever), it's generally been a messy affair, finding a place that's not too shitty, or too damp, and (most importantly of all) where no one can see you. Did the protagonist and Sandy just get down to it on that gravelly area just by the fountain? Sandy's bottom would have more than bits of sand embedded in it! It seems a shame that a story based in the very real world of bereavement should then be diverted into sexual fantasy that lacks some of a sense of reality.
My second criticism is Sandy (perhaps even Denise). I couldn't visualise her. Laura I could. Sandy I couldn't. Okay. We know she has hard wet nipples. And we know she's old enough to get married (like Denise). But that's about it. Perhaps more effort could have been done to fill in the details.
A very entertaining story. Well done.
Bradley Stoke
For More : http://www.asstr.org/~Bradley_Stoke
(mirror: http://www.bradley-stoke.barrysworld.net)
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 16:46:27 -0600
On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:07:03 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
This is a nice tale of love and remembrance. Not a tragedy, I don't think so. The first line says it all about the sad parts, but the rest isn't about that part. A nice romantic feel, all over.
When we get to the sex scene, their first together, that works out especially well. The memories flow, the style feels like remembered love celebrated. The ending is subtle enough to make it seem like reality, yet we can wonder what really happened with Sandy. If the story made it entirely clear that the memory was renewed with Sandy, it would be a very different sort of story. As it is, we can let our imagination wonder whether it was all fantasy, or reality.
It is harder to say what needs improving. The time of the setting, the age of the participants, that one requires some guesswork. Too much, I think. My quick vague impression is that it is set in the early 1960s, but there isn't anything positive to confirm it. Some things are timeless.
The ages are also a bit too vague. It doesn't kill the story, but a girl of age 13 or so might be his daughter's friend and still somehow manage the role in the story. I don't think that impression was intended. OTOH, if you make her 23 or 33, she starts to get a bit too old.
For a 90s generation reader, the timing might be too equivocal. For a contemporary story, and I think that for a lot of readers a story written in 2002 will be interpreted as contemporary by default unless something clearly marks it otherwise in context, it could be quite different.
The war could be the Vietnam War, the last really "big" war that a lot of USA'ns remember. It could even be the Gulf War of 1991 ;-) Of course, that latter interpretation would suggest a daughter of age 11 or so, which might make the story seem very different in appeal.
I don't know if all that matters. But if you are going to try to ground the story in time with references to "the war" maybe it needs just a little more to define its setting.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: oosh
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 00:52:39 +0000 (UTC)
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote in
news:ui0s0oq7eulrb5@news.supernews.com:
Gone (MF, traj, rom, first?)
I'd counsel against "traj" and "first?". Why "traj" and not "tradge"?
More to the point, what's the point of "first" as a code? People who are susceptible to upset at the prospect of reading of first experiences are surely not numerous on ASSM/D. You might as well have a "sex" code for people who are likely to be upset by sex. Or is the code there to attract those who like stories of discovery of sex as something new - the reaction of innocence looking at sex without preconceptions? If so, this story isn't for them. No, "first?" is a spoiler; and if you want to put up a spoiler, I'd have a new code, "husbandmisstakesdaughtersfriendforrecentlydeceasedwife" and get it done with!
She was gone. He shook his head. The years. A tear slowly wended its way down his cheek as he began to pack her things.
I'd change this down a gear. I'd have him thinking that it would be best to get rid of her stuff before the very thought of it made him weep; that it was best to get rid of it while he was still numb, and the sense of loss hadn't yet really hit him. That would work well both with the way he's later able to make love with a comparative stranger, and with his sudden realization that he isn't yet quite coping with his feelings.
I loved the tittering squirrels and their soccer. I thought that was particularly effective as a sign of a little bit of reality breaking through. It's a moment of psychological truth, nicely captured and beautifully expressed.
It was as he was wandering that he bumped into her. Sandy, a friend of his daughter, Denise.
I would have preferred a colon or dash after "her".
Sandy reached out for his hand, squeezing it. "It's okay. It's important to remember her that way. I'm not exactly a little kid anymore." She smirked.
I just want to observe very neutrally that "I'm not exactly a little kid anymore" ages Sandy. It's not something that a mature adult would think of saying. For me, it would put her in her early twenties, plus or minus six decades. It's a very revealing sentence. ("Anymore" still jars on me! Historians please note! But I confess that to me it looks like the name of an Irish village.)
And to his chagrin he noticed. Her obvious warmth and personality.
I'm puzzled about the full stop (period) in the middle of this sentence. If it needs a pause, perhaps a dash? But perhaps instead: "And to his chagrin he noticed: her warmth and personality were obvious." No, that doesn't feel right either. How about: "The warmth of her personality seemed an intrusion." She's pricking him awake; perhaps ultimately he deflects it into a memory. Perhaps he accepts it. That is the story's central ambiguity.
A body young enough to remember its soft curves but old enough to understand them as well.
I admired this very much; I just thought the words "as well" were better omitted. They're heavy, and add nothing to what deserves to be a classic quote! With a thought of this quality, nothing but the best will do.
I'm stopping here: not because of my impatience, but out of consideration for yours. This is much too good a story to dissect under the microscope. These tiny cavils are out of place here, and I should apologize.
Instead, let me say that I thought that the main idea behind this story, and the delicate way in which reality blended with memory, were handled beautifully. For me, the "first?" theme was very carefully done, and it worked as it was intended to. I think that the numbness and disorientation of the principal character are true to life. To portray the mind of someone in that state is a daunting task, and let no one say it was badly done, who has not done it well!
O.
From: Tenyari
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 04:21:32 GMT
oosh wrote:
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote in
Gone (MF, traj, rom, first?)
I'd counsel against "traj" and "first?". Why "traj" and not "tradge"?
More to the point, what's the point of "first" as a code? People who are susceptible to upset at the prospect of reading of first experiences are surely not numerous on ASSM/D. You might as well have a "sex" code for people who are likely to be upset by sex. Or is the code there to attract those who like stories of discovery of sex as something new - the
Attraction is the key.
I regularly search the archives by story code to find something I'm looking for.
Story codes are not just there to warn people off. They're your greatest tool of advertisement once you're past being a new story.
However I would see 'first' as a code for tales about soon to be ex-virgins, which none of the characters in this tale seemed to fit.
traj seems to work for tragedy. But of course both traj and tradge are misspellings for such a code.
The official code for first experiences is 1st. tragedy has no story code, so I would use the full word to facilitate searching.
Tenyari
- -writer in progress.
If he tells you "he'd slept with four girls one night, you could figure
it was about a girl and a half.
From: dennyw
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 21:39:38 -0700
On Mon, 01 Jul 2002 16:58:28 GMT, Tenyari <tenyariNOSPAM@hotmail.com> held forth, saying:
I'm curious on the viel she wore while dancing at the wedding.
The paragraph in question :
"The blue dress she wore to their daughter's wedding. He
remembered how happy she was, how she felt in his arms as
they danced around the room. The material was soft, clingy,
sensual; like her. It floated around them, reminding him of
their own wedding day, when her veil floated around them as
he swept her in his arms. "
The dancing mentioned directly was at their daughter's wedding. Maybe Dryad meant the last sentence I quoted as being about their dancing at their wedding - but I didn't read it that way.
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it."
- G.B. Shaw
From: Souvie
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 05:33:49 GMT
On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:07:03 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
This week we have 2 new contributors to the FishTank. It's exciting to see. Join with me in welcoming their contributions. This first submission is from Dryad. It's a complete story and is 1,175 words in length.
FishTank guidelines apply:
Unfortunately I wasn't first, so most of what I first thought of to say, has been said. <g> I'll try my best, though.
1) 2 positive comments
Positive: I can feel his grief. And empathize wtih him. For me, that's a good thing.
Positive: The sex scene was well-written, and I could envision it in my mind.
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
Improvement: It might have been years since his wife died, and there in the park he might have been caught up in his grief, but the sex with Sandy just jarred me. Maybe if he'd all pictured it in his mind, and then she says something to break him out of his reverie. Maybe something about Sandy reminds him of his late wife - the way she licks her pouty lips, or stares at him, something like that. To me, the story would have kept it's initial "sad" tone, the sex would still have been well-written (even if it was only a fantasy) and it would have seemed more true, overall, to me.
- Souvie
From: Always Horny
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 08:27:50 +0200
Gone (MF, traj, rom, first?) By Dryad (gbbjg@yahoo.com)
-positive comments
I like the tender love scene reminiscence. Nice and ROM.
-suggestions for improvement
"She said sympathetically"; And elsewhere "empathetically"
They are the right words, but they are too ungainly.
Basically anything else with decently short words will not jar the reader out
as badly. This reader, anyway.
(and yes, this is from the guy who just wrote "reminiscence").
AH
A_H_01 at hotmail. com
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 10:03:12 -0600
On Wed, 3 Jul 2002 00:52:39 +0000 (UTC), oosh <oosh@gmx.NOSPAM.net> wrote:
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote in
news:ui0s0oq7eulrb5@news.supernews.com:
Gone (MF, traj, rom, first?)
I'd counsel against "traj" and "first?". Why "traj" and not "tradge"?
More to the point, what's the point of "first" as a code? People who are susceptible to upset at the prospect of reading of first experiences are surely not numerous on ASSM/D. You might as well have a "sex" code for people who are likely to be upset by sex. Or is the code there to attract those who like stories of discovery of sex as something new - the reaction of innocence looking at sex without preconceptions? If so, this story isn't for them. No, "first?" is a spoiler; and if you want to put up a spoiler, I'd have a new code, "husbandmisstakesdaughtersfriendforrecentlydeceasedwife" and get it done with!
(first) is mostly one of the attracting sorts of codes. I don't know if it is a great match for this story, but it isn't entirely inappropriate.
But that is a coding issue, what things to stick in to warn the reader. (tragedy) is a maybe thing, not sure that it exactly applies because unhappy death is part of life but not always tragic (we don't see the cause, maybe it was something spectactular?).
(first?) though I think is a spoiler. The sex scene presented is written as a first time, no doubt about that. No question mark needed, that is what happens. The possible - not definitely explicit - sex scene turning into one with Sandy - new situation doesn't let us know whether it is a first or not. That is, if it even happened, and wasn't just a daydream memory triggered by the sympathetic younger woman.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: dennyw
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 14:23:22 -0700
On Wed, 03 Jul 2002 04:21:32 GMT, Tenyari <tenyariNOSPAM@hotmail.com> held forth, saying:
However I would see 'first' as a code for tales about soon to be ex-virgins, which none of the characters in this tale seemed to fit.
Well, in the dream-sequence sex, isn't the mental image (at least) of the protagonist his first time with his now-departed wife?
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it."
- G.B. Shaw
From: Tenyari
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 00:25:57 GMT
dennyw@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.invalid wrote:
On Wed, 03 Jul 2002 04:21:32 GMT, Tenyari <tenyariNOSPAM@hotmail.com> held forth, saying:
However I would see 'first' as a code for tales about soon to be ex-virgins, which none of the characters in this tale seemed to fit.
Well, in the dream-sequence sex, isn't the mental image (at least) of the protagonist his first time with his now-departed wife?
I suppose one could have come away thinking that.
The real problem here is that there is no 'first' story code. There is a '1st' story code.
Not sticking to the proper codes breaks the ability of the search engine to get any use out of them ...
Tenyari
- -writer in progress.
If he tells you "he'd slept with four girls one night, you could figure
it was about a girl and a half.
From: Ray
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 17:58:47 -0400
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote in message news:ui0s0oq7eulrb5@news.supernews.com ...
This week we have 2 new contributors to the FishTank. It's exciting to see. Join with me in welcoming their contributions. This first submission is from Dryad. It's a complete story and is 1,175 words in length.
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
Questions, concerns, submissions can be directed to: me@desdmona.com or Desdmona22@aol.com
FishTank submissions and comments are stored at : http://www.asstr.org/~Desdmona/FishTank/base
******************************************** Gone (MF, traj, rom, first?) By Dryad (gbbjg@yahoo.com)
She was gone. He shook his head. The years. A tear slowly wended its way down his cheek as he began to pack her things.
The blue dress she wore to their daughter's wedding. He remembered how happy she was, how she felt in his arms as they danced around the room. The material was soft, clingy, sensual; like her. It floated around them, reminding him of their own wedding day, when her veil floated around them as he swept her in his arms. He sighed softly, inhaling her lingering scent.
One hell of a start to a nice story of sentiment, longings and memories with special attention to their power over us.
I especially enjoyed the references to the scents of 'aroused woman, warm spring rain and hemlock' having partly evoked the magic of the situation for him.
For fixes .... mostly just a couple of very minor things that affected my reading of this story. (I'll leave the stockings, hose, pantyhose things for another).
In the following paragraph you used "so so" in describing his fatigue of the soul:
They had met in this park, near the large central fountain. It was right after the war. He had come home, feeling lucky but feeling so so tired. She made him want to celebrate, to Live. Her dark sparkling eyes, always so full of fun.
As a suggestion, you might change the 'so so tired' to 'oh-so tired' or 'so, so tired' giving a little more emphasis to the second 'so'.
The other suggestion is for the final paragraph in the story. Some of your sentences are run together, without spacing after the periods.
Beyond that .... I enjoyed the reading very much.
Ray
Did you know that now I go to culture classes every night ....
I'm a devotee and connoisseur of Black Velveteen Art ....
I have a painting of Rambo that glows in the dark ...
From: PleaseCain
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: 04 Jul 2002 03:15:02 GMT
You captured the dull atmosphere of grief. I also like the sweet lovemaking, not overdone, and the transformation from past to present, from Laura to Sandy, worked really well. Great job.
For improvements, I would slash most of the adverbs, many of which were unnecessary. Some of the other language can be cleaned up and clarified as well, as in this paragraph:
And to his chagrin he noticed. [Combined with next sentence] Her obvious warmth and personality. A body young enough to remember its soft curves but old enough to understand them as well. [< - unclear] It had begun to rain softly, and he watched her nipples harden as the cold water soaked her shirt before shaking himself out of his reverie. [Sounds like the "cold water" shook him]
The central message survives intact however, and will only be strengthened with further editing.
Thanks for contributing your writing to the Fish Tank.
Cain
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: 04 Jul 2002 03:53:28 GMT
The blend is beautiful, I almost can't imagine it being done better, and yet I don't quite buy it. Even if I allow myself to believe in Sandy's action, I can't believe that this guy wouldn't know. I know - that's the story. It pushes it into the realm of fantasy, and I'd prefer the story didn't fall into fantasy. But what to do about it? I have no idea.
Much of the writing is excellent. The mood really comes through. But there are quite a few mistakes which need to be corrected, so I suggest reading each sentence again as carefully as possible. Here's one little but annoying error:
His voice trailed off, realizing to whom he was speaking.
The voice doesn't actually realize anything in the sense of this sentence.
- Mat Twassel
Mat's Erotic Calendar at http://calendar.atEros.com
From: dennyw
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 01:03:32 -0700
On Thu, 04 Jul 2002 00:25:57 GMT, Tenyari <tenyariNOSPAM@hotmail.com> held forth, saying:
The real problem here is that there is no 'first' story code. There is a '1st' story code.
Not sticking to the proper codes breaks the ability of the search engine to get any use out of them ...
Well, yes. But not everyone thinks of that when they code the story.
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it."
- G.B. Shaw
From: Tenyari
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 17:32:23 GMT
dennyw@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.invalid wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jul 2002 00:25:57 GMT, Tenyari <tenyariNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
The real problem here is that there is no 'first' story code. There is a '1st' story code.
Not sticking to the proper codes breaks the ability of the search engine to get any use out of them ...
Well, yes. But not everyone thinks of that when they code the story.
True. I wonder how many stories that I 'would have wanted to read' there are that I will never find because they weren't coded right. :)
My above I suppose makes for one of my 2 criticims for this story. It's not coded right, I would never find it once it was off the 'front page'.
Tenyari
- -writer in progress.
If he tells you "he'd slept with four girls one night, you could figure
it was about a girl and a half.
From: dennyw
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 12:51:59 -0700
On Thu, 04 Jul 2002 17:32:23 GMT, Tenyari <tenyariNOSPAM@hotmail.com> held forth, saying:
dennyw@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.invalid wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jul 2002 00:25:57 GMT, Tenyari <tenyariNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
The real problem here is that there is no 'first' story code. There is a '1st' story code.
Not sticking to the proper codes breaks the ability of the search engine to get any use out of them ...
Well, yes. But not everyone thinks of that when they code the story.
True. I wonder how many stories that I 'would have wanted to read' there are that I will never find because they weren't coded right. :)
My above I suppose makes for one of my 2 criticims for this story. It's not coded right, I would never find it once it was off the 'front page'.
Well, you could of course look by author, too.
In the case of the (1st) code, I learned early on to also look for (first).
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it."
- G.B. Shaw
From: Tenyari
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 21:01:04 GMT
dennyw@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.invalid wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jul 2002 17:32:23 GMT, Tenyari <tenyariNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
True. I wonder how many stories that I 'would have wanted to read' there are that I will never find because they weren't coded right. :)
My above I suppose makes for one of my 2 criticims for this story. It's not coded right, I would never find it once it was off the 'front page'.
Well, you could of course look by author, too.
That requires me to find out about a given author first. :) Which comes back to the first stories of theirs I find being story-coded right. ;)
Tenyari
- -writer in progress.
If he tells you "he'd slept with four girls one night, you could figure
it was about a girl and a half.
From: Alexis Siefert
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: 4 Jul 2002 21:50:35 -0700
I'm behind (again), and I haven't read the other responses, so I'm not sure if I'm going to be repeating or not. Forgive me if I am.
I like the memories. They're fragmented, and memories usually are. Your sentence structure moves the reader around quickly, in short bursts, during the "remembering" sections. I think that you need to split some of it up for effect though. For example – instead of the longer paragraphs that you have:
She was gone. He shook his head. The years. A tear slowly wended its way down his cheek as he began to pack her things.
And…
As he came down, he opened his eyes. Sandy was beneath him, smiling softly. He was stunned, even a bit embarrassed. It seemed so real. Laura.my Laura.she's gone. He collapsed onto her waiting, soft body, and wept, Sandy's arms wrapped around him.
I'd break them up to something like:
She was gone.
He shook his head. The years. A tear slowly wended its way down his cheek as he began to pack her things.
And…
He opened his eyes. He was stunned, even a bit embarrassed. It had seemed so real, but it wasn't Laura. Laura's gone.
He collapsed onto her soft body and wept as Sandy's arms wrapped around him.
The transition between his ‘anger' at Sandy for her trite comments, to her coming on to him and him noticing is awfully abrupt, and I found it jarring. It needs a more gentle lead-in, and honestly, I don't find it quite believable as it is. Perhaps if there was an indication that Sandy was a closer friend of the family, that they had had some contact prior to this and he had already before noticed her sexuality… I just don't think that, if he's still too raw from his wife's death to pack her clothes, he's going to be quite that quick to notice his daughter's friend's breasts and nipples. Not yet. Especially not in a public place like a park fountain. This requires too much "suspension of disbelief" as it's written.
That being said, I like the sex scene. It's gentle and slow and unsure. And, without being obvious, it's clear that he doesn't really know whom he's with. The details are well done – not overdone – but enough to get a good feel. You've got scents and visuals and touch…hemlock instead of just branches. Loamy instead of just "dirt."
There are technical issues that I'm not going to address. I'm sure that someone else in the thread has probably pointed them out. I will say this – it's = "it is" Everything else is "its" Always. Fini.
So, run it through a proofreader, keep the pace of the sex, and do something to make the meeting between he and Sandy a little more believable. Oh, and take out the "first" code. I'm not sure it's applicable, and I think it's misleading. Personally, I think you include codes that are central to the story – "first" really does seem to imply that the losing of virginity is a focus. I don't see that here.
Very sweet story. Thank you.
Alexis.
From: Hamadryad73
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: 05 Jul 2002 16:03:54 GMT
okay ...its friday, i won't be around tonight, and i couldn't wait any longer laugh comments to comments follow:)
Okay, With so many comments, I'll try to do this in an orderly fashion. snort .
#1 Tenyari
The veil. It doesn't say he remembers the veil when dancing with his wife at
THEIR wedding; but it reminds him of her veil in general. "reminding him of
their own wedding day, when her veil floated around them as he swept her in his
arms." (like when he kissed her? On that idea) though it could have been during
their own reception as well.
#2 Denny's comment ...broke protocol and already answered it (thanks!)
#3 Tesseract
" Laura my Laura" the proper punctuation got lost in the doc to text
translation; its been fixed in the next version. The other line about pressing
him down to her chest? I'm still working on that.
#4 Bradley
Okay. Point taken. However, I didn't' mention one quasi important note. Gone
has a mirror story I'm still working on, from Sandy's perspective. Quite a bit
of the back story will be filled in there, as well as her own personality, and
the why's as to her willingness/forwardness. And to answer your question..I
will admit to personally having a thing for older men; at 28, my husband will
be turning 40 in a few weeks.
grin
#5 Jeff
The timing and age. First, the code says MF, as well, Sandy was Denise's
friend. Denise, who is married. it is vague, but I think the feeling of
confusion would be lost if I elaborated. I did give a better idea of timing
in the mirror story though. This is what I'm thinking. Mr. Allard and Laura
marry, around 1948 (let him finish school after the war)..Denise as oldest,
born 2 years later. (that brings graduating from HS around '68) graduates
college, like 72, marry around 73 or so, Sandy says she's 29 (in the revised
version) which would bring us to '77) okay. I know that. You know that ...the
reader doesn't. which is why I included it in the mirror story.
#6 Oosh
I agree, the first does give something away, which is why I put the "?".
Consider it gone.
"I'd change this down a gear. I'd have him thinking that it would be best to
get rid of her stuff before the very thought of it made him weep; that it was
best to get rid of it while he was still numb, and the sense of loss hadn't yet
really hit him." I thought and thought about this and I have to disagree. Its
pretty immediate. I'm thinking less than a month since she's passed on. He is
clinging to her memory..he goes through the motions of packing, because its
socially expected, but his heart isn't into it. So why does he suddenly sleep
with Sandy? He's out there; he doesn't even REALIZE that he's slept with her
until the end. (the idea of younger flesh, recognizing it as hers the first
time ...it would be about the right age as well, to compare Sandy now to Laura
when they had first made love.) Its supposed to be a tactile thing.
The little kid comment was addressed previously.
The period? Once again, .doc to text struck. It will be fixed in the final version. The as well? Gone. (and I have to say you made my day with your comment about the rest of the line:) )
#7 Souvie
Improvement: It might have been years since his wife died,
<If it had been years, why would Sandy have said she heard?>
"Maybe if he'd all pictured it in his mind, and then she says something to
break him out of his reverie." The whole point was he was so lost in his
grief, he didn't realize it wasn't his wife.
"Maybe something about Sandy reminds him of his late wife - the way she licks
her pouty lips, or stares at him, something like that." I did use this, to a
certain extent, in the mirror (having read the comments prior to actually
sitting down and writing.)
#8 Always.
I know its not what you meant, but I changed sympathetic to empathetic
laugh . sympathy is no different from pity, whereas empathy you feel their
pain. (therefore in my dictionary, sympathy is a negative feeling) If you can
find me a shorter word that gives the same connotation, I'll take it.
#9 Ray
last paragraph, spaces, etc ...once again doc to text what a mess . The so so,
don't like oh so either, but I'm thinking on a better way to word itJ.
And I gotta ask ...what about Stockings???
#10 Alexis
Okay, I'll go through the its/it's thing thought I caught them all, darn it
all! I like the suggestion of the paragraph breaks ...thanks.
I know everyone had a problem with the lead-in. I'm still thinking on it, but I'll send out the mirror story, and you guys can tell me whether or not you think its acceptable that way (personally, I think it makes a lot of sense in conjunction with "Return" (the mirror story) ...but then, I know the wherefores).
Sorry for the exceedingly long message, but everyone gave such incredible feedback ...can't tell you how I appreciate it:)!
Dryad
From: Ray
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 12:57:22 -0400
"Hamadryad73" <hamadryad73@cs.com> wrote in message news:20020705120354.06775.00003254@mb-fm.news.cs.com ...
okay ...its friday, i won't be around tonight, and i couldn't wait any longer laugh
comments to comments follow:)
*****************
Okay, With so many comments, I'll try to do this in an orderly fashion. snort .
Lots of snipped comments here:
#9 Ray
last paragraph, spaces, etc ...once again doc to text what a mess . The so so, don't like oh so either, but I'm thinking on a better way to word itJ. And I gotta ask ...what about Stockings???
The stockings thing ....
Maybe it's my age (I'm hitting the half-century mark later this year) and all of the changes I've noted over the years, including the changes in fashions, but ....
I had, in my own head, already placed the original meeting with Laura in the mid to late forties and included the original roll in the damp spring Hemlock in that period. For that period you would have been dealing with stockings and stays or garters (also pre-supposed by his 'memory kissing' of the bare upper thigh between her stocking tops and panties).
Moving one to your projected 1977 time period .... a young modern woman (whose age was not established in the original story). In this time period, the normal daily 'hose' for the majority of American women is 'pantyhose' .... stockings and garters are much less prevalent and normally reserved for 'special occasion's .... though 'stay-ups' were beginning to be popular at the time as they required no belt. Yet, in your story he was discovering the same expanse of bare skin, not a continuous sheen of hose into or to the panty line. This supposedly was a chance meeting in the park where emotional turmoil, odors, a sudden spring shower and overpowering memories initiated the circumstances which followed.
It simply struck me as somewhat odd that the younger, modern girl would be wearing stockings and not hose. That there were no 'noticeable differences in skirt length or design or differences in the feel and style of the 'stockings' to jar him from his reverie - even in mid grope. Materials, styles, cut and fit of clothing had changed so much .... especially where stockings and hose were concerned.
I really had anticipated someone else, especially one of the women, catching this.
Like the other things I mentioned .... it is not an especially big issue and a touch of suspension of belief allowed the reading of the story to be a very enjoyable experience. I do like the story and will be interested in reading Sandy's story. It could very well shed the necessary light on the points I mention above.
Hope I was clear ... I think I may have rambled a bit. <g>
Ray
From: Alexis Siefert
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: 05 Jul 2002 17:16:57 GMT
"Ray" ray1031@cac.net
Date: 7/5/2002 8:57 AM Alaskan Standard Time Message-id: <DbkV8.220$mI.107167@newsfeed.slurp.net>
<snip>
Materials,
styles, cut and fit of clothing had changed so much .... especially where stockings and hose were concerned.
I really had anticipated someone else, especially one of the women, catching
Good point, Ray. Frankly, I was reading this story as a "today" story, not one that took place almost 25 years ago. Today it would be not at all uncommon for a young woman to have on a summer dress without stocking or hose at all. Bare legs for summer <g>
Dryad - this brings up another point - Sandy's age. In your comments you say that Sandy is Denise's friend and Denise is married. In the actual story, there's no indication of this. It's important only to establish that Sandy isn't a teen. Just mentioning that she's his daughter's friend, coupled with the "I'm not a kid" type comments, leads the reader (at least this reader) to visualize her as sixteen or seventeen. If she's a young adult, it changes the flavor of the story a bit and should be addressed. Personally, I like it better with her being an adult.
Alexis.
ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/Alexis_S/
http://www.asstr.org/~Alexis_S/
And, of course, The Web's Best Illustrated Adult Fiction is at
http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: Hamadryad73
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: 05 Jul 2002 18:14:55 GMT
Okay, becuase i know everyone is going to be curious about the mirror file, i posted it on my site. Its a blind link, so it won't be found from my contents though. http://www.asstr.org/~Dryad/returntemp.html (if you can, check this one, as i don't lose stupid punctuation in the transfer to txt) but for those who only have txt ability ... http://www.asstr.org/~Dryad/return.txt
Its a bit rougher than Gone. Sandy's character really comes out in it though.
and if i haven't said it before? I really (REALLY) appreciate the work you guys have been dumping into it ...smiles
Dryad
From: dennyw
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 12:08:03 -0700
On 05 Jul 2002 17:16:57 GMT, alexisinalaska@aol.communicate (Alexis Siefert) held forth, saying:
"Ray" ray1031@cac.net
Date: 7/5/2002 8:57 AM Alaskan Standard Time Message-id: <DbkV8.220$mI.107167@newsfeed.slurp.net>
<snip>
Materials,
styles, cut and fit of clothing had changed so much .... especially where stockings and hose were concerned.
I really had anticipated someone else, especially one of the women, catching
Good point, Ray. Frankly, I was reading this story as a "today" story, not one that took place almost 25 years ago. Today it would be not at all uncommon for a young woman to have on a summer dress without stocking or hose at all. Bare legs for summer <g>
Wasn't really rare in the late 70s either. So that'd work. Or she might have been wearing knee socks or such. Or even 'knee high' stockings.
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it."
- G.B. Shaw
From: Alexis Siefert
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: 05 Jul 2002 19:08:22 GMT
alexisinalaska@aol.communicate (Alexis Siefert) Date: 7/5/2002 9:16 AM Alaskan
I said ...
Dryad - this brings up another point - Sandy's age. In your comments you say that Sandy is Denise's friend and Denise is married. In the actual story, there's no indication of this.
Oops. I'm wrong (thanks for pointing that out, Denny). Sorry. The blue dress was worn at Denise's wedding. So, obviously, Denise is or was married.
Alexis
ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/Alexis_S/
http://www.asstr.org/~Alexis_S/
And, of course, The Web's Best Illustrated Adult Fiction is at
http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: Ray
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 16:35:54 -0400
"Alexis Siefert" <alexisinalaska@aol.communicate> wrote in message news:20020705131657.02017.00003405@mb-ma.aol.com ...
"Ray" ray1031@cac.net
Date: 7/5/2002 8:57 AM Alaskan Standard Time Message-id: <DbkV8.220$mI.107167@newsfeed.slurp.net>
<snip>
Materials,
styles, cut and fit of clothing had changed so much .... especially where stockings and hose were concerned.
I really had anticipated someone else, especially one of the women, catching
Good point, Ray. Frankly, I was reading this story as a "today" story, not one that took place almost 25 years ago. Today it would be not at all uncommon for a young woman to have on a summer dress without stocking or hose at all. Bare legs for summer <g>
Dryad,
That was the other point I wanted to bring up about the "stockings" .....
Again, you have him, in both stories, kissing the bare skin of the thigh between the stocking tops and the panties. She then 'easily' slides the panties and stocking down together, clearing his way. Here again, for stocking and stays or garters, it is not quite that simple .... there are clips that need to be undone for a stocking's easy removal, usually two per leg.
If memory serves correctly, the current, more trusted, design of 'stay ups' were just becoming available about then and still weren't really trusted yet by most women as earlier versions were usually only good for a single wearing - any washing and sometimes simple perspiration and the wrong move would see them sliding to their knees or fully to the ankles.
My memory may be faulty, but I was with a young woman about that time who had similar troubles when she tried them ... she preferred stockings to hose, but hated the belts and stays.
Ray
From: Tesseract
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: 5 Jul 2002 22:29:17 -0700
hamadryad73@cs.com (Hamadryad73) wrote in message news:<20020705120354.06775.00003254@mb-fm.news.cs.com> ...
...
#4 Bradley
Okay. Point taken. However, I didn't' mention one quasi important note. Gone has a mirror story I'm still working on, from Sandy's perspective. Quite a bit of the back story will be filled in there, as well as her own personality, and the why's as to her willingness/forwardness. And to answer your question..I will admit to personally having a thing for older men; at 28, my husband will be turning 40 in a few weeks. grin
No fair! Cheat! I thought this was a complete story. Now you'r saying that to properly understand it I should read another story. Not that I wouldn't. If it's written as well as this one I wouldn't want to miss it. But, still ... rules is rules :-)
Note to self Hamadryad aka Dryad is female, or, as the Duck would say, concave.
#5 Jeff
The timing and age. First, the code says MF, as well, Sandy was Denise's friend. Denise, who is married. it is vague, but I think the feeling of confusion would be lost if I elaborated. I did give a better idea of timing in the mirror story though. This is what I'm thinking. Mr. Allard and Laura marry, around 1948 (let him finish school after the war)..Denise as oldest, born 2 years later. (that brings graduating from HS around '68) graduates college, like 72, marry around 73 or so, Sandy says she's 29 (in the revised version) which would bring us to '77) okay. I know that. You know that ...the reader doesn't. which is why I included it in the mirror story.
FWIW I always pictured Sandy as early to mid twenties.
Tesseract
From: Tesseract
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: 5 Jul 2002 22:29:17 -0700
hamadryad73@cs.com (Hamadryad73) wrote in message news:<20020705120354.06775.00003254@mb-fm.news.cs.com> ...
...
#4 Bradley
Okay. Point taken. However, I didn't' mention one quasi important note. Gone has a mirror story I'm still working on, from Sandy's perspective. Quite a bit of the back story will be filled in there, as well as her own personality, and the why's as to her willingness/forwardness. And to answer your question..I will admit to personally having a thing for older men; at 28, my husband will be turning 40 in a few weeks. grin
No fair! Cheat! I thought this was a complete story. Now you'r saying that to properly understand it I should read another story. Not that I wouldn't. If it's written as well as this one I wouldn't want to miss it. But, still ... rules is rules :-)
Note to self Hamadryad aka Dryad is female, or, as the Duck would say, concave.
#5 Jeff
The timing and age. First, the code says MF, as well, Sandy was Denise's friend. Denise, who is married. it is vague, but I think the feeling of confusion would be lost if I elaborated. I did give a better idea of timing in the mirror story though. This is what I'm thinking. Mr. Allard and Laura marry, around 1948 (let him finish school after the war)..Denise as oldest, born 2 years later. (that brings graduating from HS around '68) graduates college, like 72, marry around 73 or so, Sandy says she's 29 (in the revised version) which would bring us to '77) okay. I know that. You know that ...the reader doesn't. which is why I included it in the mirror story.
FWIW I always pictured Sandy as early to mid twenties.
Tesseract
From: Iconoclast
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2002 18:10:49 GMT
"Conjugate" <conjugate@butter.toast.net> wrote on Fri 05 Jul 2002 09:59:20p
Conjugate
who is resisting the temptation to say, if "at 28, my husband will be turning 40 in a few weeks," does that mean her husband is aging really fast?
I'm so glad you resisted.
"With a little bit of luck I'll give right in"
Iconoclast
From: Uther Pendragon
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: 7 Jul 2002 06:25:07 -0600
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> writes:
1) 2 positive comments
1 The story captures the past, and the allure of the past, perfectly.
2 The memory of his 1st with Laura is remarkably erotic.
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
1 "Tiptoed" is a hoizontal motion. It's walking on tiptoes, not increasing your height by rising up on your tiptoes.
2 "She was too young" is a weird, and unpersuasive, thought from someone the age of the deceased's daughter.
Sorry for the lateness.
From: Desdmona
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 12:53:55 -0400
"Hamadryad73" <hamadryad73@cs.com> wrote in message news:20020705120354.06775.00003254@mb-fm.news.cs.com ...
Dryad~
Thank you very much for taking a risk and allowing the FT crew to take a look at your story. I have a personal feel for this, probably because when you sent it to me, you told me it was inspired by a grief story I had written.
His grief is done extremely well. I imagine that anyone who has to go through the belongings of a deceased partner are heart-stricken. I do agree with Oosh's comments about it directly though. Another poignant and so true moment: "He was unsure whether it helped or made him angry. Kid, what did she know." Gosh, that's just good stuff, Dryad.
And yet I think one of my favorite parts might be:
"He ended up in the city park, a grand old place. He walked the avenue of ancient oaks that soared above him in an arch. The squirrels tittered at his feet, playing some sort of squirrel soccer with a nut."
I love that scene. It's perfect.
But therein lies the rub about the sex that comes later by the fountain. The park is so serene, so family-like, and so in the daylight. The emotion he feels is overwhelming, and I think my imagination can be stretched enough to believe that the sex could happen - it's the dreamy quality of what you've written that makes it possible for me. But it's more difficult to believe he isn't jarred into awareness because of the daylight. If time had passed, if night had fallen, and then all the smells and the feelings of that moment with Laura had been exactly the same, then I could believe that grief could make him blind. But otherwise, we not only have to believe he thinks it's Laura, we also have to believe that he's totally unaware of his surroundings, it's a grand old park. I think that's the credulity issue for me.
One other sentence that I think needs clearing up is: "He shivered in memory, remembering when she'd given him her virginity."
I realize this is the all important segue, but I think it needs to say when Laura had given him her virginity. The confusion comes because of the sentences prior to this one. We're reading about Sandy. He knows Sandy. They have a history. not a sexual history, but still as a reader we wouldn't know that. The shiver in memory is too close to all the sentences about Sandy to not make certain he's not remembering a prior time with Sandy. Maybe a paragraph break is all you need. But I also think that by saying, 'Laura had given him her virginity', it would clear it up.
You've done just a superb job of defining his grief and the overall mood. I can't say enough about that.
I look forward to reading your mirror story!
Thanks again for contributing!
Des
From: Hamadryad73
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: 07 Jul 2002 17:13:36 GMT
Thank you!
so you can all see where your advice took me, you can see the final version
online.
http://www.asstr.org/~Dryad/gone.html
i haven't posted the text version yet, as i have to do all the fun punctuation play with it.
Dryad
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2002 13:59:34 -0600
On 7 Jul 2002 06:25:07 -0600, Uther Pendragon <anon584c@nyx.net> wrote:
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> writes:
2 "She was too young" is a weird, and unpersuasive, thought from someone the age of the deceased's daughter.
Not if it is the age of her own mother, who is still alive and healthy. I felt it was a reasonable reaction, especially when I was thinking that the daughter was early 20s, if not perhaps younger (but some people have early marriages and I got the impression that was the sort of situation here).
Anyway, in RL I've got that kind of reaction about my dad. Even younger people expect people to get really old before they die. I suspect this is because they are looking forward to a longer life, not one cut short too soon.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Always Horny
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 04:09:48 +0200
Hamadryad73 wrote:
#8 Always.
I know its not what you meant, but I changed sympathetic to empathetic
Well, it was "sympathetically" that triggered me. I think if you just switch to "She said with empathy" it will already go a long way.
laugh . sympathy is no different from pity, whereas empathy you feel their pain. (therefore in my dictionary, sympathy is a negative feeling)
Huh? I've received a lot of sympathy on my father's death, and I never felt I was pitied upon. And I've had the opportunity to offer mine to someone else since, and I did not pity her. That interpretation, I'm not sure it's grounded in fact. But hey, it's your story :)
AH
A_H_01 at hotmail. com
From: john
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: 21 Jul 2002 22:08:47 -0700
Gone by Dryad
I will, for once, be brief though very tardy.
In an erotic story about a grieving husband who re-creates his first sexual experience with his dead wife by making love to his daughter's friend, avoiding ghoulishness would seem improbable. That you did it tastefully is testimony to your talent.
Your park is cool - if slightly amazing - as others noted. (My beds of loam and pine needles have born no resemblance to satin.) You write well, too well to use 'so' as an adjective as much as you did both in and out of dialogue.
In a story in which so much hinges on time, a more consistent use of tenses would have made it a much smoother read.
I will look into your mirror with anticipation. Mirrors often contain some hidden truths.
John
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From: Tenyari
Re: Gone, by Dryad
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 16:58:28 GMT
It's a very beautiful story. I'm having trouble finding anything I would 'improve' in it.
I really like how the past and present blend together seamlessly when he makes love to her.
The memories scattered throughout build up a good picture of what was special, important, to him.
I'm curious on the viel she wore while dancing at the wedding. Don't most people change into a reception dress right after the ceremony and before any events?
Desdmona wrote:
Tenyari
- -writer in progress.
If he tells you "he'd slept with four girls one night, you could figure it was about a girl and a half.