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From: Father Ignatius
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:36:45 +0200
"Gary Jordan" <pjcocoa@aol.come.to.bed> wrote in message news:20011126120601.27642.00001682@mb-cf.aol.com ...
So tell me that shiver has one "V" and so on, but please don't tell me where to put my asterisks <VBG>. And that's my last word on it until Saturday.
<Thinks: "He's inviting pedantry? Seldom have I received so much encouragement.">
<Rolls up sleeves and wanders off determined to miss the wood for the trees.>
"Father Ignatius" <FatherIgnatius@hotmail.com> http://www.asstr.org/~FatherIgnatius/Stories.html http://www.asstr.org/~FatherIgnatius/Images.html ...and gradually, when he found that his sensitive organ was really grateful for those grim favours, he conferred them with a better grace. Henry James, Portrait_of_a_Lady
From: Frank McCoy
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:50:46 GMT
desdmona22@aol.com (Desdmona22) wrote:
Damn. Commenting on this one is going to be difficult.
1) 2 positive comments
I liked the story.
OK ... OK! Maybe I can do better than that:
The shower scene was hot; but I liked the cuddling on the bed even better.
I got fairly good visual-imaging of them both at the computer. Sometimes closeness like that can be more erotic than actual sex.
2) 2 things to improve
The dialog at times seemed a little jerky. But perhaps that's just the paragraph formatting. I'm not sure.
At times, in the shower scene in particular, I wasn't quite sure where his hands and fingers were.
At the beginning, I had some idea of chocolate being spread all over her butt ... and then it led me into the idea that the ass-work and chocolate were hints of rimming ... Something that can be erotic for some, but not me ... and not here in the story. So, it made me wonder if it was implied intentionally.
Oops. That's three.
Sorry.
3) Try not to repeat!!
/ ' /
,-/-, . __ /
(/ / ((/|/ / </ <
From: Father Ignatius
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:44:49 +0200
Da good stuff.
1. I do like a story where the protagonists are old friends and treat each other like people. This means they can listen as well as talk and agree to disagree.<shiver>
2. Nice story, well told, evocative use of circumstantial detail.
Da bad stuff.
1. You can never have enough proofingandediting, IME.
(MF Rom anal chocolate)
Word order: (MF Rom anal chocolate anal) wouldn't have squicked me. ;-)
having married into royalty. She tosses that "imperial we" around quite a bit.
"royal we"
chocoholic
Hey, you spelled it right but it looks wrong. Wonder why.
"Chocolate frosting," she corrected, glancing at a printout titled "How To Eat Pussy" and blushing a little. She'd remarked at the time that articles like that one should be mandatory in sex education classes. That little gem plus some open communication had improved that area of our sex life.
Last sentence too clinical. Can't you find a way of getting it across without spelling it all out?
I'm greedy. I want Jeanine all to myself.
Nice.
"Now don't you go getting all insecure on me," she replied. She stood into my embrace and hugged me fiercely. "I am not bored." With that she proceeded to give me a tonsillectomy with her tongue. When we broke, panting, from that
Don't like "tonsillectomy." Spoils mood, like inappropriate earlier use of "raped."
still don't want to be trussed up like a thanksgiving turkey so you can
Capstart "Thanksgiving."
Her nostrils flared and her eyes flashed.
I'm sorry, but this had me thinking of battery-operated Mattel toys.
The delightful rubbing resumed, and she responded, "Probably more than me. Than I. Let's just forget about that for now. Take me to bed and bore me a couple of times, vanilla-man."
first choice. But I thought, 'what the hell'. I released her ass, and took her hand.
Capstart "What." Single quotes distracting and so I favour double. You said "thought" so we know it's not verbalised.
AOL went through its paces
Mention of AOL officially anti-erotic ;-)
clever Feghoot.
Tautology
demented Beavis and Butthead parody.
Tautology
I didn't think to clear the screen, or minimize it. I was plainly caught with my hand in the cookie jar and crumbs on my lips. I guiltily said, "Hi, sweetie. Feeling rested?" Busted.
Nice.
weren't where I expected you, I thought I'd settle for some m&m's. I see I
She just chuckled. "I don't know that 'interested' is the right word. I'm
Again with the single quotes. You're trying too hard.
my previous Significant Other
ex
"Yes, you did. Someday I might let you bring it up again," she dismissed it.
Hmmm. Odd taste. Out of character? Or are you telling us she's embarrassed? Yes. You are. Good.
I remembered something I'd read. "I'm not even sure Analease is what we want. I think we need something else. You were right about needing to research this on the net." I moved my chair over. "Let's surf."
2. I suppose Des doesn't want me to mess up Fish Tank by starting in with aioli recipes. Pity, in a way ...
"Father Ignatius" <FatherIgnatius@hotmail.com> http://www.asstr.org/~FatherIgnatius/Stories.html http://www.asstr.org/~FatherIgnatius/Images.html ...and gradually, when he found that his sensitive organ was really grateful for those grim favours, he conferred them with a better grace. Henry James, Portrait_of_a_Lady
From: Conjugate
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:19:39 -0500
Desdmona22 <desdmona22@aol.com> wrote in message news:20011126112932.09924.00001617@mb-fg.aol.com ...
The following is our 19th submission into the FishTank. We're cruising now!! Just a reminder - submissions are to be less than 5000 words, sent to me at Desdmona22@aol.com and will be posted each Monday. The author submitting will wait until Friday of that same week to respond to any comments made. Healthy discussions are encouraged!
The same guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 things to improve
3) Try not to repeat!!
As always, stories and comments (only) are being stored at:
http://www.asstr.org/~Desdmona/fishtank/base ***************************************************
Chocolate Sauce
By Gary Jordan
(MF Rom anal chocolate)
Copyright © 2001
Well, let's see. I liked very much the humorous feel to the story, and I also thought the characters and dialog were well-done. That seems awfully close to only one thing, as the humorous feel to the story was partly due to the characters and the dialog, but it covers a lot of ground. For instance, it seemed clear to me that the narrator really loved his spouse, and vice versa.
Two things to improve: Well, certainly more reliable spell-checking is one. For instance, you always spell "shivering" with two v's. Do a search-and-replace to change "shivvering" to "shivering" as it happens at least twice that I saw. The other thing to improve is hard to describe. I am not sure how to put this, but let me try ... I never felt I could "see" the action. Perhaps a few more words of description sprinkled slyly in amidst the action and the dialog would help. A line describing Jeanine's smile, or maybe a clause describing the bed in the middle of another sentence, or something like that might help. It's hard for me to be sure what would help, exactly.
Apologies if I am repeating observations that another has made; I'm writing this without reading the other replies, because when I read the other replies, I become distracted and talk back to the other repliers instead of commenting on the story.
Conjugate
From: Anne747
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 27 Nov 2001 02:30:21 GMT
1) 2 positive comments
I like the playful mood of the couple. It shows their comfort level with each other. Sets the stage for the mutual exploration.
For a first experimentation for anal, it's good. Not a simple 'we want to try' and then 'pound it in' story.
2) 2 things to improve
I'd drop the URL in the piece. Not that Uther won't like the plug, but it's somewhat distracting. If she found the website because of the narrator, how come he doesn't know the type of stories that Uther writes?
The shower scene was perhaps too, detailed, is the best I can come up with. It almost told me too much, to the point where at times I had to read parts again to picture the action.
3) Try not to repeat!!
One - just one - Feghoot?
Anne
To reply by mail - remove the b in the address
Anne's Erotic Story Archive - http://annejet.pair.com/ Free Story FAQ - http://annejet.pair.com/fsfaq/
From: dennyw
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:29:47 -0800
On Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:44:49 +0200, "Father Ignatius" <FatherIgnatius@hotmail.com> held forth, saying:
She just chuckled. "I don't know that 'interested' is the right word. I'm
Again with the single quotes. You're trying too hard.
This one's conventional and standard usage. The earlier mention you made of a 'he thought' sitcherashun is one where writer's preference applies. (or editor's preference - <buffs nails>). -denny-
"I fear that we have awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve ... " - Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, Dec. 8th, 1941
From: Remy Nissin
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:52:57 GMT
On 26 Nov 2001 16:29:32 GMT, desdmona22@aol.com (Desdmona22) wrote:
The same guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
I liked the overall tone of the story. You did a tremendous job of showing (versus "telling") two people in love (as opposed to merely lust), comfortable with each other and genuinely affectionate. A rarity, perhaps because it's so hard to do well. You did it well.
The characters were believable. That the narrator was humorously self-deprecating gave an impression that this was a real person, one who knew (some of) his limitations and was comfortable with them, and comfortable with himself.
2) 2 things to improve
It needs one more round of proofreading. Numerous things that a good spellchecker would catch, plus a couple that it wouldn't:
"dropped to her heals" < - "heels"
"didn't want to Julius to look elsewhere" < - remove "to" preceding
"Julius"
I didn't think anal sex was kinkier than bondage. I thought it was the other way around. I'm really not sure whether this is a "thing to improve," but it's all I could think of.
Great story, Gary.
From: Anoninsac
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 27 Nov 2001 09:03:24 -0800
Not Repeat? Too late, all the good comments have been used.
Liked the story, real characters and the dialogue felt real to me. Also, the affection for each other comes across.
I felt let down at the end. All this build up and no pay off and then I saw that an anal scene is going to be appended??? The story needs it IMHO.
From: Desdmona
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 29 Nov 2001 16:01:12 GMT
The following is our 19th submission into the FishTank.
Chocolate Sauce
By Gary Jordan
(MF Rom anal chocolate)
Copyright © 2001
Gary~
This is another very nice installment to the Chocolate Series. Because I've read all (most) of the stories, I've grown to know and love this couple. They're real and funny and loveable! One of my favorite scenes in this story is when Jeanine cries after sex. It's a wonderful phenomenon that happens to me sometimes. And when it does I feel washed with love for my husband, so seeing her react this way just added to the realism of the story. And because of all the touches of realism in the story, it becomes a love story with sex in it and not just a sex story. I have a fondness for these kinds of stories.
There's several instances where choice of words or phrases made me smile and say, 'Oh, I like that!' such as,
"You were telling me not to worry about boring you," I replied, trying to bore through my jeans and her shorts with the hardest tool available.
"Right," she dimpled, thrusting her pelvis to meet the excavation effort.
Double entendres are a personal favorite for me and my husband. I'll say something not realizing it has another meaning. He'll ask me to repeat it and I hear what I'm saying, and purposely repeat it slowly, and breathily. I love it that he catches it and naughtily asks me to repeat it. (Yikes that paragraph is riddled with adverbs)
And
"She leaned forward to plant a kiss
on my nose. I intercepted it with my lips ..."
And
"We fondled our way through several
pictorial guides as well."
And finally,
"I had a mystery pain in my lower back, which I finally attributed to the tub's spigot. Odd that I hadn't noticed it earlier, or while it was happening."
This last one was just one more thing that rang with familiarity. It happens all the time, sex injuries that we don't remember doing at the time, or sometimes we know the injury is happening, but the sex is much more important to us. Familiar and sweet!
A couple of places stopped the flow of reading for me, such as,
"Jeans, even straight leg, are a hassle to remove ..."
First, when it said, "even straight leg" I thought it was referring to the cut of the jeans, and it didn't make sense to me, but after rereading I realized it's meant to mean he held his legs straight. Some clarification might be needed.
But the real peccadillo I have with this is, he lumbered out of bed after making love, and went straight to the computer ... why does he have jeans on? I realize some men after making love will just slip their pants back on, but in this case, with this loving couple, I think I'd like it better if he slipped on boxers or his robe, or something less "dressed" after making love with her. It's a lazy Saturday ...make him a little more lazily dressed.
and
"I felt her soapy fingers clutching my cheeks and tried to return the favor, but she had an advantage due to our relative heights. I felt her soapy fingers brushing my asshole and clenched involuntarily ..."
The repeated, "I felt her soapy fingers ..." takes away from the titillating moment of trying something new. Maybe, "Her soapy fingers clutched my cheeks. I tried to return the favor but couldn't. She was shorter and had an advantage. When she brushed my asshole I clenched involuntarily ..." Anyway, you get the idea. I think shorter, more direct sentences right at this moment would add to the frenetic energy.
And finally,
"Damitol" I have mixed feelings about this word. Here's my thoughts: I love it because it's very colloquial and real. I don't like it because it sounds like an over-the-counter drug like Geritol or Nytol. In another place in the story it would work really well, but at this moment in the story, he's upset because he thinks he's hurt her. It's not a time I want to giggle. See my point?
Just another very sweet, romantic, and sexy story! Very well done, Gary!
Des
PS. Oops forgot to say, I agree with Anonisac; an anal sex scene would really add to the story!
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 30 Nov 2001 00:31:39 GMT
Chocolate Sauce
By Gary Jordan
[I don't really disagree with any of the comments made so far. Main positive impressions:
I like the people and I like what they do. The story has a pretty good tone.
Main negative impressions: The sex scenes aren't always as clear as they should be. I would have liked a real ending.
Oh, I do disagree with one comment: someone mentioned liking they way dimpled was used. I don't get it. I want it to work, but I don't think it does. It seems badly wrong somehow:
"Right," she dimpled, thrusting her pelvis to meet the excavation effort.
- Mat Twassel
From: Desdmona
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 30 Nov 2001 16:03:35 GMT
From: mmtwassel@aol.com (mat twassel)
Oh, I do disagree with one comment: someone mentioned liking they way dimpled was used. I don't get it. I want it to work, but I don't think it does. It seems badly wrong somehow:
"Right," she dimpled, thrusting her pelvis to meet the excavation effort.
I think it may have been my post that you read this in. I was referring to the use of Boring (tedious) into boring (digging) into excavation effort.
I think I'll agree with Mat on the "She dimpled." I think it's meant as smiled, but it does seem a bit awkward. Especially since she's thrusting her pelvis and women always worry about dimpling cellulite when talking about the pelvis. <grin> Only a woman would think of this, huh?
Des
From: Ray
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 00:04:02 -0500
Well, it's happened again ...
I've had the story on my desk since it was first posted and I've been just busy enough with things (and just lazy), and here it is 11:55 PM Friday and I still haven't read it.
Back in 40 minutes!!!
Ray
From: Poison Ivan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 01:06:08 -0500
So, why does everybody think this is such a playful couple? What is it about Gary's stories that make them seem so fun?
I think it's mostly the language the narrator uses. The wordplay. Things like the "bore" pun. People who play with language are people who are having fun. It's obvious this narrator really likes talking about their relationship.
There was one little problem with the "bore" pun, though. In "I wanted to be not-bored tonight," you drop the pun, and because of that, I wondered for a second if the pun might have been a mistake. You need to be more careful how you use "bore" from here on in this story.
Someone complained about too much detail in the shower, but I'm not sure that was the problem for me. I could have used a little more description of how his arousal builds. It's sort of, she stuck her finger up my butt, and then I was about to come, and then I spurted all over the place. There needs to be more sensual detail, I think.
But mostly it's just a pleasant, growing relationship here. The "I'm sorry" exchange towards the end is an example that shows some uncertainty in a relatively new relationship, and it shows some real concern and tenderness. Good stuff, Gary.
I can't wait until you finish it!
Poison Ivan
From: Ray
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 01:06:37 -0500
Chocolate Sauce
By Gary Jordan
(MF Rom anal chocolate)
Copyright © 2001
Gary~
Okay, Of course, I loved the dialog, the give and take, and bantering manner of it all, as well as the sensitivity and insecurities both were revealing throughout as the story advanced.
I also liked the 'rules' You called them 'key phrases'. But they are something that everyone needs to have their noses rubbed into every now and then and they should be the automatic watch words anytime someone is trying something new. Makes it easier and more enjoyable for both - no matter the act.
Something to correct ... The following paragraph, doesn't work, I'll explain after:
" "Chocolate Frosting," she corrected, glancing at a printout titled "How To Eat Pussy" and blushing a little. She'd remarked at the time that articles like that one should be mandatory in sex education classes. That little gem plus some open communication had improved that area of our sex life. "
The reason it doesn't work - for me - is simply in the phrasing ... It only makes questions for me. Where was it? It's obviously old since she 'remarked at the time' so has it been sitting in the printer since lord knows when? Did she just make a new copy because the old one was too stained to be used again? Having previous exposure to it, previous discussions about it, AND previously using it - did he really have to take it with him for 'reference' as they headed to the bedroom?
No other suggestions than a very careful word for word read. There were a few cases where thens and ands and such could be replaced with an alternate word for a smoother flow, is all.
An excellent addition to the other chocolate stains on the sheets. Loved it.
Ray
PS Damn!!! seven minutes late!!!
From: PleaseCain
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 01 Dec 2001 01:21:19 GMT
Your storytelling style is a lot of fun. The playfulness between characters, the nicknames, the word games like at the conclusion, fleshed out the characters and made me invest myself into their private world. Ditto your imagery: "She closed her eyes and bit her lower lip in concentration ..." I love when I see that look!
As a suggestion, I would urge you to drop the slash marks, which along with overuse of other special effects like italics and dashes or adverbs or adjectives, signals laziness. (The fact that your slashes are concentrated in two lines tells me they will be removed in later drafts.) Also, a lot of your specific cultural references eluded me, including the title, which isn't a bad thing per se, because that didn't impede the flow or import of your story; it just means that we travel in different circles, perhaps, or I am dense, or some such, all probable. Still, tread carefully, because you don't want to risk alienating too many readers.
Excellent stuff. Thanks for sharing it.
Cain
From: Nick
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 30 Nov 2001 17:42:59 -0800
I haven't had much chance to read the other comments to this, so I don't know if I'm repeating, though a brief skim suggests that a lot of repetition has occurred already so i don't have to feel too guilty!
Positive 1: I liked the shower sex scene. As I get older and jaded it's easy for these things to get samey, but this one worked - probably because of the 'Shock of the New' element. I was a bit worried about some of the moves, and wondered if you could actually do some of this stuff in a tiny shower cubicle. Perhaps you shoudl try and act it out for real. Go on, you know you want to!
Positive 2: There was an inkling of tension there in that I wasn't sure, to start with, what exactly it was she wanted. I liked the idea of keeping the reader guessing in this way. Of course the title is a bit of a giveaway, so it maybe just me.
Improvement 1: You could cut down the number of words without ruining the story. In particular I thought that the start was a little overdone, but this example:
She rolled her eyes and her expression changed. I recognized that expression, and the sigh that came with it. It was her Men are so dense sometimes expression. The last time I saw that expression was when I cuddled with her after Message In A Bottle. She had cried then, too. (So had I, but I don't think she caught me.) She was reminding me that not all tears are from pain or sadness.
Trust me you only need the first two sentences. And when a few lines down you have her say:
"For being the kind of dense male ...
You have her actually express what the smile is. That's definitely belabouring the point.
Improvement 2: Watch the 'patter'. It doesn't always work. Here, for example:
With that she proceeded to give me a tonsillectomy with her tongue.
I've come across sharp tongued women before ...! Exaggerate by all means but don't make the exaggeration painful!
Cheers
Nick
From: Always Horny
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 17:10:58 +0100
Chocolate Sauce By Gary Jordan (MF Rom anal chocolate)
Why the code "chocolate"? Don't see it in the story. I'll assume it is one of those reference-to-a-reference jokes for which I have missed the 200 first episodes ...
1) 2 positive comments
I liked very much the relationship between these two. Not simple wham-bam, not beatific admiration, not just mad lust. Good job. Great job, even.
The sex scene could be very hot. Actually, the scene IS hot, in spite of all the distractions it is stuffed with.
2) 2 things to improve
A-The end.
It is a major letdown. "Grabbed a pepsi and watched a serial on TV" as an end to
a hot scene ?
It's not only that an anal scene is missing (I can see one, but I can also see
how the story is fine without), it is that this bit is a real downer. Mundane,
almost sordid. (well "sordid" is too strong, but I don't find the right word).
Kind of an anti-punch-line, for my taste.
B-The smart-ass-ing
Before I go into it, I must say that perpetual cheesy forced smart-assing does
not amuse me, neither at thread-length in ASSD nor in stories. Especially when
the same type of effect is used 20 times in a row. No matter how cute and smart
the effect was initially, for my taste repetition does NOT enhance the finesse.
"Repetition humor" lost its appeal for me when I was 8yo, about.
This being said, for my taste this piece was a total failure at a sex story because it is constantly switching between two modes: it could be an excellent, erotic sex story, or it could be a good tongue-in-cheek humorous piece.
As an erotic story, it is killed by the smart-ass-ing in all the wrong places. And heavily-repeated repetition "humor" in the wrong places quickly gets really annoying. And eroticism-destroying. F.ex, imagine what the paragraph "a la Morgenstein" does to erotic tension.
As a purely humor story, the sex is distracting. I can't help thinking what a good hot scene this is. And the "tender love" overtone towards the end becomes kinda corny in that context. I guess if you wanted to go the "primarily funny story" route, you'd need to change that plot end to something more suitable to be made fun of. Something like Nat's "Expanding Julie's ...".
IIRC it was Slot who noted some time ago that you can't have too much humor mixed with hot sex, because it kills it. For me it was very much the case here.
Now, this story has a lot of potential to be a great hot scene if you reduce the smart-ass-ing a bit, and can be a good mainly-humor story if adapted. Blessed with too many riches ... Your predicament could be worse.
AH
A_H_01 at hotmail. com
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 01 Dec 2001 17:47:25 GMT
AH writes (see below) about the tone - jokes mixed with serious sex. What worries me is that removing the smart-ass remarks might destroy or damage the tone. We seem to like this narrator (or this couple) because of the tone of the relationship. I don't disagree that to a degree the remarks cut into steaminess, but at the same time the jokes characterize the couple, adding flavors I wouldn't want to miss. In the end I think I had some of these same feelings AH describes. Sometimes the "remarks" do get in the way, not just of the sex but of the story. But deciding what to trim away might not be easy.
- Mat Twassel
B-The smart-ass-ing
Before I go into it, I must say that perpetual cheesy forced smart-assing does not amuse me, neither at thread-length in ASSD nor in stories. Especially when the same type of effect is used 20 times in a row. No matter how cute and smart the effect was initially, for my taste repetition does NOT enhance the finesse. "Repetition humor" lost its appeal for me when I was 8yo, about.
This being said, for my taste this piece was a total failure at a sex story because it is constantly switching between two modes: it could be an excellent, erotic sex story, or it could be a good tongue-in-cheek humorous piece.
As an erotic story, it is killed by the smart-ass-ing in all the wrong places. And heavily-repeated repetition "humor" in the wrong places quickly gets really annoying. And eroticism-destroying. F.ex, imagine what the paragraph "a la Morgenstein" does to erotic tension.
As a purely humor story, the sex is distracting. I can't help thinking what a good hot scene this is. And the "tender love" overtone towards the end becomes kinda corny in that context. I guess if you wanted to go the "primarily funny story" route, you'd need to change that plot end to something more suitable to be made fun of. Something like Nat's "Expanding Julie's ...".
IIRC it was Slot who noted some time ago that you can't have too much humor mixed with hot sex, because it kills it. For me it was very much the case here.
Now, this story has a lot of potential to be a great hot scene if you reduce the smart-ass-ing a bit, and can be a good mainly-humor story if adapted. Blessed with too many riches ... Your predicament could be worse.
AH
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 02 Dec 2001 19:14:21 GMT
Hi, Frank McCoy. You wrote:
Damn. Commenting on this one is going to be difficult.
1) 2 positive comments
I liked the story.
OK ... OK! Maybe I can do better than that:
The shower scene was hot; but I liked the cuddling on the bed even better.
Cuddling on the sofa?
I got fairly good visual-imaging of them both at the computer. Sometimes closeness like that can be more erotic than actual sex.
Thank you.
2) 2 things to improve
The dialog at times seemed a little jerky. But perhaps that's just the paragraph formatting. I'm not sure.
I'll re-read aloud to see if I can spot that.
At times, in the shower scene in particular, I wasn't quite sure where his hands and fingers were.
Good - you were supposed to be following hers.
At the beginning, I had some idea of chocolate being spread all over her butt ... and then it led me into the idea that the ass-work and chocolate were hints of rimming ... Something that can be erotic for some, but not me ... and not here in the story. So, it made me wonder if it was implied intentionally.
Really? You got that from the codes? I'll change the order.
Oops. That's three.
Sorry.
No worries.
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners don't dye. If they fade, they call the new color fashionable."
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/
http://www.asstr/org/~Gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 02 Dec 2001 19:46:51 GMT
Hi Father Ignatius. You said:
Da good stuff.
1. I do like a story where the protagonists are old friends and treat each other like people. This means they can listen as well as talk and agree to disagree.<shiver>
2. Nice story, well told, evocative use of circumstantial detail.
Thank you.
Da bad stuff.
1. You can never have enough proofingandediting, IME.
(MF Rom anal chocolate)
Word order: (MF Rom anal chocolate anal) wouldn't have squicked me. ;-)
I like my "chocolate" code. It's a signature for this couple. But listing it after anal was a mistake. Maybe cons chocolate.
having married into royalty. She tosses that "imperial we" around quite a bit.
"royal we"
Fixed.
chocoholic
Hey, you spelled it right but it looks wrong. Wonder why.
;-)
"Chocolate frosting," she corrected, glancing at a printout titled "How To Eat Pussy" and blushing a little. She'd remarked at the time that articles like that one should be mandatory in sex education classes. That little gem plus some open communication had improved that area of our sex life.
Last sentence too clinical. Can't you find a way of getting it across without spelling it all out?
Noted for action.
I'm greedy. I want Jeanine all to myself.
Nice.
Thanks :-)
"Now don't you go getting all insecure on me," she replied. She stood into my embrace and hugged me fiercely. "I am not bored." With that she proceeded to give me a tonsillectomy with her tongue. When we broke, panting, from that
Don't like "tonsillectomy." Spoils mood, like inappropriate earlier use of "raped."
Okay. raped can be ravished, or something else that indicates agressive instigation of sex, trying to economically convey that she was extremely aroused. Tonsillectomy can go as well.
still don't want to be trussed up like a thanksgiving turkey so you can
Capstart "Thanksgiving."
Oops.
Her nostrils flared and her eyes flashed.
I'm sorry, but this had me thinking of battery-operated Mattel toys.
Got carried away.
The delightful rubbing resumed, and she responded, "Probably more than me. Than I. Let's just forget about that for now. Take me to bed and bore me a couple of times, vanilla-man."
first choice. But I thought, 'what the hell'. I released her ass, and took her hand.
Capstart "What." Single quotes distracting and so I favour double. You said "thought" so we know it's not verbalised.
Okay. Done.
AOL went through its paces
Mention of AOL officially anti-erotic ;-)
I get a new Chevy Blazer if I work their name into my stories. (In other words, it is a matter of opinion, and I'm not going to change it.)
clever Feghoot.
Tautology
Okay.
demented Beavis and Butthead parody.
Tautology
Okay.
I didn't think to clear the screen, or minimize it. I was plainly caught with my hand in the cookie jar and crumbs on my lips. I guiltily said, "Hi, sweetie. Feeling rested?" Busted.
Nice.
Thanks again! :-)
weren't where I expected you, I thought I'd settle for some m&m's. I see I
<pedant>M&Ms</pedant> ;-)
I'm not sure. They use an uncial "m" on the package and on each candy.
She just chuckled. "I don't know that 'interested' is the right word. I'm
Again with the single quotes. You're trying too hard.
This is a quote within a quote, and single is appropriate.
my previous Significant Other
ex
Can I use "ex" without specifying ex-what? I haven't dealt with whether they were previously married or living with someone. "SO" avoids the necessity of pinning that detail down.
"Yes, you did. Someday I might let you bring it up again," she dismissed it.
Hmmm. Odd taste. Out of character? Or are you telling us she's embarrassed? Yes. You are. Good.
I remembered something I'd read. "I'm not even sure Analease is what we want. I think we need something else. You were right about needing to research this on the net." I moved my chair over. "Let's surf."
2. I suppose Des doesn't want me to mess up Fish Tank by starting in with aioli recipes. Pity, in a way ...
I'll be looking for {ASSD} Aioli Recipes
Thanks for the input.
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners don't dye. If they fade, they call the new color fashionable."
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/
http://www.asstr/org/~Gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 02 Dec 2001 19:49:55 GMT
Hi, Denny! You said:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:44:49 +0200, "Father Ignatius" <FatherIgnatius@hotmail.com> held forth, saying:
She just chuckled. "I don't know that 'interested' is the right word. I'm
Again with the single quotes. You're trying too hard.
This one's conventional and standard usage. The earlier mention you made of a 'he thought' sitcherashun is one where writer's preference applies. (or editor's preference - <buffs nails>).
On the first, you'd have changed it and not even mentioned it. :-) On the second, you're beginning to get through to me. Thanks.
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners don't dye. If they fade, they call the new color fashionable."
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/
http://www.asstr/org/~Gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 02 Dec 2001 20:10:44 GMT
Hi, Conjugate! You said:
Well, let's see. I liked very much the humorous feel to the story, and I also thought the characters and dialog were well-done. That seems awfully close to only one thing, as the humorous feel to the story was partly due to the characters and the dialog, but it covers a lot of ground. For instance, it seemed clear to me that the narrator really loved his spouse, and vice versa.
Thanks muchly!
Two things to improve: Well, certainly more reliable spell-checking is one. For instance, you always spell "shivering" with two v's. Do a search-and-replace to change "shivvering" to "shivering" as it happens at least twice that I saw.
I use the very best spell-checker I can afford. He lives in Seattle. ;-) Seriously, I really did catch that one, but not until I'd sent Des the HTML file. One of the consequences of composing a story in HTML instead of text or a word processor is you have to rely on yourself as the chell-specker. This was still a raw file.
The other thing to improve is hard to describe. I am not sure how to put this, but let me try ... I never felt I could "see" the action. Perhaps a few more words of description sprinkled slyly in amidst the action and the dialog would help. A line describing Jeanine's smile, or maybe a clause describing the bed in the middle of another sentence, or something like that might help. It's hard for me to be sure what would help, exactly.
I think I understand. It seems to be a tightrope walk, though. More description tilts one way, making the dialogue jerkier, or the action slower. I'll work on using shorter, more descriptive words instead of phrases, to tighten it up.
Apologies if I am repeating observations that another has made; I'm writing this without reading the other replies, because when I read the other replies, I become distracted and talk back to the other repliers instead of commenting on the story.
Not at all. Thanks for your observations. Gary Jordan "Old submariners don't dye. If they fade, they call the new color fashionable."
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/
http://www.asstr/org/~Gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 02 Dec 2001 20:26:01 GMT
Hi Anne! You said:
1) 2 positive comments
I like the playful mood of the couple. It shows their comfort level with each other. Sets the stage for the mutual exploration.
For a first experimentation for anal, it's good. Not a simple 'we want to try' and then 'pound it in' story.
I never believe those. They're totally foreign to my experience.
2) 2 things to improve
I'd drop the URL in the piece. Not that Uther won't like the plug, but it's somewhat distracting. If she found the website because of the narrator, how come he doesn't know the type of stories that Uther writes?
I'll shorten it to a partial - it's important to the story that he note it and come back to it. As for knowing what Uther writes, his tracks led her to ASSTR. She found Uther on her own. He probably reads your stories. ;-) I did. ;-)
The shower scene was perhaps too, detailed, is the best I can come up with. It almost told me too much, to the point where at times I had to read parts again to picture the action.
I'm not sure how to address that. But I'll try to tighten it up.
3) Try not to repeat!!
One - just one - Feghoot?
Huh? Please clarify.
Thank you, Anne.
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners don't dye. If they fade, they call the new color fashionable."
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/
http://www.asstr/org/~Gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
From: Anne747
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 02 Dec 2001 21:29:40 GMT
Gary wrote:
She found Uther on her own. He probably reads your stories. ;-) I did. ;-)
Yeah, yeah. Flattery will get you .... I was going to say nowhere, but you never know.
One - just one - Feghoot?
Huh? Please clarify.
Someone else mentioned some of the references in the story. I haven't a clue what the above reference means. So, if I have to stop a story to do a web search .... that pulls me completely out of the story. The reader may not go back.
Before people give me links ...
http://home.att.net/~dr.billie.taylor/feg_txt.html
Anne
To reply by mail - remove the b in the address
Anne's Erotic Story Archive - http://annejet.pair.com/ Free Story FAQ - http://annejet.pair.com/fsfaq/
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 03 Dec 2001 00:33:25 GMT
Hi again, Anne!
Gary wrote:
She found Uther on her own. He probably reads your stories. ;-) I did. ;-)
Yeah, yeah. Flattery will get you .... I was going to say nowhere, but you never know.
;-)
One - just one - Feghoot?
Huh? Please clarify.
Someone else mentioned some of the references in the story. I haven't a clue what the above reference means. So, if I have to stop a story to do a web search .... that pulls me completely out of the story. The reader may not go back.
Before people give me links ...
http://home.att.net/~dr.billie.taylor/feg_txt.html
Ah. Lose the Feghoot comment. Got it. Done. Thanks again.
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners don't dye. If they fade, they call the new color fashionable."
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/
http://www.asstr/org/~Gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 02 Dec 2001 20:34:16 GMT
Hi, Remy! You wrote:
1) 2 positive comments
I liked the overall tone of the story. You did a tremendous job of showing (versus "telling") two people in love (as opposed to merely lust), comfortable with each other and genuinely affectionate. A rarity, perhaps because it's so hard to do well. You did it well.
Thank you very, very much.
The characters were believable. That the narrator was humorously self-deprecating gave an impression that this was a real person, one who knew (some of) his limitations and was comfortable with them, and comfortable with himself.
Thanks again.
2) 2 things to improve
It needs one more round of proofreading. Numerous things that a good spellchecker would catch, plus a couple that it wouldn't:
"dropped to her heals" < - "heels"
"didn't want to Julius to look elsewhere" < - remove "to" preceding "Julius"
Noted. Thanks.
I didn't think anal sex was kinkier than bondage. I thought it was the other way around. I'm really not sure whether this is a "thing to improve," but it's all I could think of.
Not kinkier than bondage, perhaps, but since she turned down bondage, kinkier than he expected. Still exploring their sexuality and their sensuality at this point.
Great story, Gary.
Thanks again, Remy! :-)
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners don't dye. If they fade, they call the new color fashionable."
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/
http://www.asstr/org/~Gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 02 Dec 2001 20:44:02 GMT
Hi, Anoninsac! You said:
Not Repeat? Too late, all the good comments have been used.
Liked the story, real characters and the dialogue felt real to me. Also, the affection for each other comes across.
Thank you!
I felt let down at the end. All this build up and no pay off and then I saw that an anal scene is going to be appended??? The story needs it IMHO.
One of the guidelines of the Fish Tank was to keep submissions down to 5000 words. I trimmed off the anal scene to be within those guidelines. There is one, and it will be consistent with the rest of the story. The stopping point was logical with that word limit. It was also the part of the story that needed more polish - less ready for the light of day.
Thanks, Anoninsac. :-)
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners don't dye. If they fade, they call the new color fashionable."
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/
http://www.asstr/org/~Gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 02 Dec 2001 21:19:41 GMT
Hi, Des! You said:
Gary~
This is another very nice installment to the Chocolate Series. Because I've read all (most) of the stories, I've grown to know and love this couple. They're real and funny and loveable! One of my favorite scenes in this story is when Jeanine cries after sex. It's a wonderful phenomenon that happens to me sometimes. And when it does I feel washed with love for my husband, so seeing her react this way just added to the realism of the story. And because of all the touches of realism in the story, it becomes a love story with sex in it and not just a sex story. I have a fondness for these kinds of stories.
There's several instances where choice of words or phrases made me smile and say, 'Oh, I like that!' such as,
"You were telling me not to worry about boring you," I replied, trying to bore through my jeans and her shorts with the hardest tool available.
"Right," she dimpled, thrusting her pelvis to meet the excavation effort.
Double entendres are a personal favorite for me and my husband. I'll say something not realizing it has another meaning. He'll ask me to repeat it and I hear what I'm saying, and purposely repeat it slowly, and breathily. I love it that he catches it and naughtily asks me to repeat it. (Yikes that paragraph is riddled with adverbs)
And
"She leaned forward to plant a kiss
on my nose. I intercepted it with my lips ..."
And
"We fondled our way through several
pictorial guides as well."
And finally,
"I had a mystery pain in my lower back, which I finally attributed to the tub's spigot. Odd that I hadn't noticed it earlier, or while it was happening."
This last one was just one more thing that rang with familiarity. It happens all the time, sex injuries that we don't remember doing at the time, or sometimes we know the injury is happening, but the sex is much more important to us. Familiar and sweet!
Des, you give great compliment! You can't see the blushing at this end, but it's there!
A couple of places stopped the flow of reading for me, such as,
"Jeans, even straight leg, are a hassle to remove ..."
First, when it said, "even straight leg" I thought it was referring to the cut of the jeans, and it didn't make sense to me, but after rereading I realized it's meant to mean he held his legs straight. Some clarification might be needed.
Oops. I was referring to the cut. Women aren't the only ones who struggle in and out of bluejeans. Imagine if they had been boot leg, while he's in a hurry, not watching himself because he has something better to watch.
But the real peccadillo I have with this is, he lumbered out of bed after making love, and went straight to the computer ... why does he have jeans on? I realize some men after making love will just slip their pants back on, but in this case, with this loving couple, I think I'd like it better if he slipped on boxers or his robe, or something less "dressed" after making love with her. It's a lazy Saturday ...make him a little more lazily dressed.
Nod. That would solve the problem above, wouldn't it?
and
"I felt her soapy fingers clutching my cheeks and tried to return the favor, but she had an advantage due to our relative heights. I felt her soapy fingers brushing my asshole and clenched involuntarily ..."
The repeated, "I felt her soapy fingers ..." takes away from the titillating moment of trying something new. Maybe, "Her soapy fingers clutched my cheeks. I tried to return the favor but couldn't. She was shorter and had an advantage. When she brushed my asshole I clenched involuntarily ..." Anyway, you get the idea. I think shorter, more direct sentences right at this moment would add to the frenetic energy.
You're right, and I like your choices.
And finally,
"Damitol" I have mixed feelings about this word. Here's my thoughts: I love it because it's very colloquial and real. I don't like it because it sounds like an over-the-counter drug like Geritol or Nytol. In another place in the story it would work really well, but at this moment in the story, he's upset because he thinks he's hurt her. It's not a time I want to giggle. See my point?
Yes. "Damnitall" or just "Damnit" or "Dammit" would be better.
Just another very sweet, romantic, and sexy story! Very well done, Gary!
Thank you very much, Des.
Des
PS. Oops forgot to say, I agree with Anonisac; an anal sex scene would really add to the story!
Like I told him, there really is one. And it's trying to be sweet and funny and sexy. It won't please the stroke fans. It might please the truth in sex story folks - I based it on my first time (what a fiasco that was. We laughed a lot, later.) ;-)
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners don't dye. If they fade, they call the new color fashionable."
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/
http://www.asstr/org/~Gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 02 Dec 2001 21:40:24 GMT
Hi, Ray! You said:
Okay, Of course, I loved the dialog, the give and take, and bantering manner of it all, as well as the sensitivity and insecurities both were revealing throughout as the story advanced.
I also liked the 'rules' You called them 'key phrases'. But they are something that everyone needs to have their noses rubbed into every now and then and they should be the automatic watch words anytime someone is trying something new. Makes it easier and more enjoyable for both - no matter the act.
Thank you!
Something to correct ... The following paragraph, doesn't work, I'll explain after:
"Chocolate Frosting," she corrected, glancing at a printout titled "How To Eat Pussy" and blushing a little. She'd remarked at the time that articles like that one should be mandatory in sex education classes. >That
little gem plus some open communication had improved that area
of our sex life. "
The reason it doesn't work - for me - is simply in the phrasing ... It only makes questions for me. Where was it? It's obviously old since she 'remarked at the time' so has it been sitting in the printer since lord knows when? Did she just make a new copy because the old one was too stained to be used again? Having previous exposure to it, previous discussions about it, AND previously using it - did he really have to take it with him for 'reference' as they headed to the bedroom?
Okay, this was a little bit of writer's license and maybe an unconscious reference to "American Pie". Without belaboring the issue in the story, I wanted to show that they used the computer and the net as a sort of sockpuppet to show each other things that they wanted to try, or to try to improve. He didn't need to carry it, just to glance or look at it pointedly and wiggle his eyebrows or something. In reality, it isn't something you'd leave lying around. At least, not outside the bedroom. (Wish I'd had that printout 30+ years ago!)
No other suggestions than a very careful word for word read. There were a few cases where thens and ands and such could be replaced with an alternate word for a smoother flow, is all.
No argument. Before I publish, I'll do a search for "and" and kill a few of the little beasties.
An excellent addition to the other chocolate stains on the sheets. Loved it.
Thanks, Ray.
PS Damn!!! seven minutes late!!!
RODLMAO!
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners don't dye. If they fade, they call the new color fashionable."
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/
http://www.asstr/org/~Gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 02 Dec 2001 21:51:04 GMT
Hi, Mat! You said:
[I don't really disagree with any of the comments made so far. Main positive impressions:
I like the people and I like what they do. The story has a pretty good tone.
Thanks.
Main negative impressions: The sex scenes aren't always as clear as they should be. I would have liked a real ending.
Discussed upthread. I hope I can keep the tone.
Oh, I do disagree with one comment: someone mentioned liking they way dimpled was used. I don't get it. I want it to work, but I don't think it does. It seems badly wrong somehow:
"Right," she dimpled, thrusting her pelvis to meet the excavation effort.
I respectfully disagree. To dimple is to smile or grin and display one's dimples. It's one place where a single word saves several. As word play, one can imagine that is not the only dimple formed in this context, although I didn't consciously intend that when I wrote it. I like it.
Thanks, Mat.
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners don't dye. If they fade, they call the new color fashionable."
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/
http://www.asstr/org/~Gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 02 Dec 2001 22:29:54 GMT
Gary writes:
"Right," she dimpled, thrusting her pelvis to meet the excavation effort.
I respectfully disagree. To dimple is to smile or grin and display one's dimples. It's one place where a single word saves several. As word play, one can imagine that is not the only dimple formed in this context, although I didn't consciously intend that when I wrote it. I like it.
What's the point of a shortcut if it stops the reader dead?
I still don't see it. Using "non-said" verbs as tags is iffy in any event. Turning off the tag might work. "Right." She dimpled, thrusting ... But that probably throws the rhythm off. I do like dimpled. Even after your explanation, I don't like the way it's used. Sometimes more words are better.
- Mat Twassel
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 03 Dec 2001 07:45:59 GMT
Mat responds:
Gary writes:
"Right," she dimpled, thrusting her pelvis to meet the excavation effort.
I respectfully disagree. To dimple is to smile or grin and display one's dimples. It's one place where a single word saves several. As word play, one can imagine that is not the only dimple formed in this context, although I didn't consciously intend that when I wrote it. I like it.
What's the point of a shortcut if it stops the reader dead?
I still don't see it. Using "non-said" verbs as tags is iffy in any event. Turning off the tag might work. "Right." She dimpled, thrusting ... But that probably throws the rhythm off. I do like dimpled. Even after your explanation, I don't like the way it's used. Sometimes more words are better.
I'll take a closer look, since you feel strongly about it. A slight change may be in order.
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners don't dye. If they fade, they call the new color fashionable."
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/
http://www.asstr/org/~Gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
From: El Gato
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 05:52:55 GMT
Hi Gary;
Just finished reading 'Chocolate Sauce' as submitted to the FishTank.
Very good read. I liked it.
The shower scene was superb, with good imagery. The banter between the two adds to the believeability of the characters. Nicely done.
Criticisms. Hmmm. OK. I only found one mis-spelled word.<G> Your editor is going to feel un-needed.<G>
Actually, the use of Uther and his story works in the context of today, but may make the story dated later down the road. You could omit the specifics of Author/Story and just mention 'favorite author' and then mention the story was about anal sex when the character goes back to look it up.
Overall, this is an excellent story. I look for the completed version in a theatre near me soon. ;-)
El Gato
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 04 Dec 2001 14:30:36 GMT
El Gato writes:
Actually, the use of Uther and his story works in the context of today, but may make the story dated later down the road.
This is a joke, right? Uther is always dated. And always current.
- Mat Twassel
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 04 Dec 2001 15:38:02 GMT
El Gato writes:
Actually, the use of Uther and his story works in the context of today, but may make the story dated later down the road.
This is a joke, right? Uther is always dated. And always current.
- Mat Twassel
I agree, I think. At least about the current part.
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners don't dye. If they fade, they call the new color fashionable."
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/
http://www.asstr/org/~Gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 04 Dec 2001 15:33:32 GMT
Hi, El Gato; you said:
Hi Gary;
Just finished reading 'Chocolate Sauce' as submitted to the FishTank.
Very good read. I liked it.
The shower scene was superb, with good imagery. The banter between the two adds to the believeability of the characters. Nicely done.
Thank you!
Criticisms. Hmmm. OK. I only found one mis-spelled word.<G> Your editor is going to feel un-needed.<G>
Un-needed? Never! Proud that he's having an effect at last, maybe.
Actually, the use of Uther and his story works in the context of today, but may make the story dated later down the road. You could omit the specifics of Author/Story and just mention 'favorite author' and then mention the story was about anal sex when the character goes back to look it up.
I can obscure the link a bit - the URL is long. But the story (Uther's "Prone") is a catalyst for the action to follow. Perhaps what I should have done was quote a few salient lines, obscuring the URL completely. I provide the source after the story in any event. The quoted lines would explain a lot, as well, while heightening that little tiny sense of suspense at the start.
Questions: Would that be "Fair Use"? Would Uther mind? Would it enhance or detract from the story?
Overall, this is an excellent story. I look for the completed version in a theatre near me soon. ;-)
Thanks much!
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners don't dye. If they fade, they call the new color fashionable."
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/
http://www.asstr/org/~Gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 04 Dec 2001 16:07:36 GMT
On quoting a bit from an Uther story in his story, Gary writes:
Questions: Would that be "Fair Use"? Would Uther mind? Would it enhance or detract from the story?
I can't really answer any of these questions, though my best guess is that a) it's not fair use, you need to get permission, b) Uther probably wouldn't mind c) depends.
Assuming you could quote the lines, I think that if you did it well it would add to the story. Another solution: invent an author and invent the key lines. I think using the real (or invented) lines is better than simply stating "a story about anal sex."
- Mat Twassel
From: El Gato
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 04:30:55 GMT
Hi Gary;
Thank you!
You're welcome.
I can obscure the link a bit - the URL is long. But the story (Uther's "Prone") is a catalyst for the action to follow. Perhaps what I should have done was quote a few salient lines, obscuring the URL completely. I provide the source after the story in any event. The quoted lines would explain a lot, as well, while heightening that little tiny sense of suspense at the start.
Sorry about the wise ass remark about Uther and 'dated', sometimes my nature just gets the best of me.<G> I was thinking that a fictitious author could be used, maybe a short 'quote' about the anal sex scene in said story by said author could be used to convey the idea. As long as ASSTR is around for all to enjoy, the reference to Uther works. But who knows the future.
Questions: Would that be "Fair Use"? Would Uther mind? Would it enhance or detract from the story?
Answers:
1.Not sure, better ask a lawyer.
2.Probably not, but I'd ask to be sure.
3.The metion of any story could serve as a catylist, even a fictitious one.
Overall, this is an excellent story. I look for the completed version in a theatre near me soon. ;-)
Thanks much!
You're welcome much!
El Gato
P&M
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 02 Dec 2001 21:54:03 GMT
So Des said:
From: mmtwassel@aol.com (mat twassel)
Oh, I do disagree with one comment: someone mentioned liking they way dimpled was used. I don't get it. I want it to work, but I don't think it does. It seems badly wrong somehow:
"Right," she dimpled, thrusting her pelvis to meet the excavation effort.
I think it may have been my post that you read this in. I was referring to the use of Boring (tedious) into boring (digging) into excavation effort.
I think I'll agree with Mat on the "She dimpled." I think it's meant as smiled, but it does seem a bit awkward. Especially since she's thrusting her pelvis and women always worry about dimpling cellulite when talking about the pelvis. <grin> Only a woman would think of this, huh?
I stand by the original. She'll worry about cellulite in a future story.
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners don't dye. If they fade, they call the new color fashionable."
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/
http://www.asstr/org/~Gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
From: Desdmona
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 03 Dec 2001 18:17:50 GMT
From: pjcocoa@aol.come.to.bed (Gary Jordan)
"Right," she dimpled, thrusting her pelvis ...
I just finished reading a Nora Roberts book, the second in her most recent trilogy, and guess what? She used the same phrase.
She dimpled ...
Of course it did pull me out of the story slightly because of this thread. I'm not sure if it would have otherwise.
Des
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 03 Dec 2001 18:33:02 GMT
Des writes:
I just finished reading a Nora Roberts book, the second in her most recent trilogy, and guess what? She used the same phrase.
She dimpled ...
What was the full sentence?
What I see as a problem with "she dimpled" is not so much that dimple is used as a verb as that it's used as a verb to indicate how something is said.
True, we accept: "Right," she smiled ... and "Right," she grinned.
I still think dimple is too big a leap.
- Mat Twassel
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 02 Dec 2001 22:47:55 GMT
Hi, Cain! You said:
Your storytelling style is a lot of fun. The playfulness between characters, the nicknames, the word games like at the conclusion, fleshed out the characters and made me invest myself into their private world. Ditto your imagery: "She closed her eyes and bit her lower lip in concentration ..." I love when I see that look!
:-)
As a suggestion, I would urge you to drop the slash marks, which along with overuse of other special effects like italics and dashes or adverbs or adjectives, signals laziness. (The fact that your slashes are concentrated in two lines tells me they will be removed in later drafts.)
Referring to the italics tells me you read the story on the Fish Tank Web Site, since the asterisks that convey them weren't in the plain text. On that point, I have to respectfully disagree. Italics and boldface are wonderful ways to convey intonation and stress on words, particularly in dialogue, without adding words to describe them. Another author might convey the same stresses in another way, but they aren't me.
Dashes, I don't know how to answer. Like the italics, they serve a purpose - to convey a break in thought or speech. Or a pause.
As for adverbs and adjectives, I really don't understand your point, unless it refers to a particular adverb or adjective used in a particular place.
The slashes could be eliminated, but not without adding conjunctions. I have too many "ands" already. I'll take it under advisement.
Also, a lot of your
specific cultural references eluded me, including the title, which isn't a bad thing per se, because that didn't impede the flow or import of your story; it just means that we travel in different circles, perhaps, or I am dense, or some such, all probable. Still, tread carefully, because you don't want to risk alienating too many readers.
One need not know that a popular chocolate sauce is Hershey's Syrup, nor that Hershey is a slang term (in conjunction with highway) for anal sex, to enjoy the story (I hope). I needed a title, and the following are my trademark for this series:
1. The title of every story about this couple will start with Chocolate, or some variation of that. 2. Rom and Chocolate will appear as codes. 3. The opening line will nearly always be, "Jeanine said, 'One of us needs to go to the store.'" (although the punctuation may change.)
Some specific cultural references are unavoidable, because they live in that culture. Jeanine is a Star Trek fan. So is the narrator. I will try to avoid references that require a knowledge of that, but other Trekkers may have a knowing smile or two as a bonus. That shouldn't cause any distress to non-trekkers. Are there other references I need to avoid?
Excellent stuff. Thanks for sharing it.
Thanks! :-)
This response seems more defensive than accepting of constructive criticism.
I'm not sure why; I do appreciate the Fish Tank and everyone who participates.
Can you clarify the specific items for improvement? I'd appreciate that.
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners don't dye. If they fade, they call the new color fashionable."
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/
http://www.asstr/org/~Gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 03 Dec 2001 10:27:42 GMT
I said:
Thanks! :-)
This response seems more defensive than accepting of constructive criticism. I'm not sure why; I do appreciate the Fish Tank and everyone who participates. Can you clarify the specific items for improvement? I'd appreciate that.
PleaseCain indicated in an e-mail that his " Internet access is affected by the shenanigans between AT&T Broadband and Excite@Home" (see below), so I have taken the liberty of posting for him so that it can go in the tank.
In a message dated 12/2/01 10:33:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, PleaseCain writes:
Gary,
Again, great story, and you handled the comments from the Fish Tank with your usual grace - I hope I didn't offend you in any way, because that is the last thing I would want to do, and in fact I wouldn't participate if the forum undermined anyone's confidence in their writing.
I'm afraid I failed to articulate my points, not good for someone who pretends to write.
Your references within the story worked just fine, because the story flowed regardless of whether I got them or not. We're not meant to understand every single Dennis Miller joke or Jeopardy question, but both are entertaining. Kerouac's "On the Road" had many scratching their heads, but those heads weren't his target audience. My comment was meant to be a flag that I didn't understand certain phrases or words, should you find that useful at all. As it stands, those references add plenty of personality to the narration.
More sloppy critique: in my point about slash-marks, I was only generalizing by lumping them with italics, dashes, adverbs and adjectives as devices that can be easily overused, because a preponderance of them kind of tips off the reader that perhaps the writer is not employing the most potent words in her story. I only noticed the slash-marks in your story, and if you used italics or any of those others, it was most effective, because they didn't bother me any!
I hope you don't mind my e-mailing these comments, which really belong on the newsgroup amongst the other Tank postings. My Internet access is affected by the shenanigans between AT&T Broadband and Excite@Home, so my access for the time being is limited to guerrilla bursts of e-mail.
Keep writing! You've got the natural flair.
Cain
Now my reply: I was in no way offended by any of your comments or suggestions. In fact, you caused me to search for other cultural or "in crowd" flags besides the Star Trek lines. I decided that the Morgenstern reference was sufficiently self revealing - you don't have to be familiar with Princess Bride to understand that his style is as written. Others will get more scrutiny.
The slash marks are probably history. They ARE lazy. Mat points out that sometimes more words are called for.
Thanks again.
P.S. I hope you don't mind my posting your e-mail. Gary Jordan "Old submariners don't dye. If they fade, they call the new color fashionable."
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/
http://www.asstr/org/~Gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 02 Dec 2001 22:59:33 GMT
Hi, Nick! You said:
I haven't had much chance to read the other comments to this, so I don't know if I'm repeating, though a brief skim suggests that a lot of repetition has occurred already so i don't have to feel too guilty!
Positive 1: I liked the shower sex scene. As I get older and jaded it's easy for these things to get samey, but this one worked - probably because of the 'Shock of the New' element. I was a bit worried about some of the moves, and wondered if you could actually do some of this stuff in a tiny shower cubicle. Perhaps you shoudl try and act it out for real. Go on, you know you want to!
Been there, done that. They avoided the even smaller shower stall in the master bathroom for the tub in the main bathroom for its extra space. And even that was crowded. (Someday I'll let them move to a larger house with a hot tub.) :-)
Positive 2: There was an inkling of tension there in that I wasn't sure, to start with, what exactly it was she wanted. I liked the idea of keeping the reader guessing in this way. Of course the title is a bit of a giveaway, so it maybe just me.
The title, if you recognize the reference. The codes, if you don't. Uther's story URL if you're a Pendragon fan. I didn't think the reader would be surprised, only the narrator.
Improvement 1: You could cut down the number of words without ruining the story. In particular I thought that the start was a little overdone, but this example:
She rolled her eyes and her expression changed. I recognized that expression, and the sigh that came with it. It was her Men are so dense sometimes expression. The last time I saw that expression was when I cuddled with her after Message In A Bottle. She had cried then, too. (So had I, but I don't think she caught me.) She was reminding me that not all tears are from pain or sadness.
Trust me you only need the first two sentences. And when a few lines down you have her say:
"For being the kind of dense male ...
You have her actually express what the smile is. That's definitely belabouring the point.
Word economy. Got it.
Improvement 2: Watch the 'patter'. It doesn't always work. Here, for example:
With that she proceeded to give me a tonsillectomy with her tongue.
I've come across sharp tongued women before ...! Exaggerate by all means but don't make the exaggeration painful!
Taken for action. They kiss intensely. No surgery.
Cheers
Thanks, Nick. :-)
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners don't dye. If they fade, they call the new color fashionable."
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/
http://www.asstr/org/~Gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 02 Dec 2001 23:06:16 GMT
Hi, Poison Ivan! You said:
So, why does everybody think this is such a playful couple? What is it about Gary's stories that make them seem so fun?
I think it's mostly the language the narrator uses. The wordplay. Things like the "bore" pun. People who play with language are people who are having fun. It's obvious this narrator really likes talking about their relationship.
There was one little problem with the "bore" pun, though. In "I wanted to be not-bored tonight," you drop the pun, and because of that, I wondered for a second if the pun might have been a mistake. You need to be more careful how you use "bore" from here on in this story.
Hmmm. I think its merely using the other sence of the word.
Someone complained about too much detail in the shower, but I'm not sure that was the problem for me. I could have used a little more description of how his arousal builds. It's sort of, she stuck her finger up my butt, and then I was about to come, and then I spurted all over the place. There needs to be more sensual detail, I think.
Nod. I need to discuss the soapy parts and how they got that way, maybe?
But mostly it's just a pleasant, growing relationship here. The "I'm sorry" exchange towards the end is an example that shows some uncertainty in a relatively new relationship, and it shows some real concern and tenderness. Good stuff, Gary.
Thanks!
I can't wait until you finish it!
Polish! More polish it needs (the ending). Has to be worthy of the praise from the Fish Tank for the start and mindful of the suggestions.
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners don't dye. If they fade, they call the new color fashionable."
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/
http://www.asstr/org/~Gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 02 Dec 2001 23:26:52 GMT
Hi, Always Horny! You said:
Chocolate Sauce By Gary Jordan (MF Rom anal chocolate)
Why the code "chocolate"? Don't see it in the story. I'll assume it is one of those reference-to-a-reference jokes for which I have missed the 200 first episodes ...
The Fish Tank only got the first 5000 words. There is always chocolate when Jeanine is involved.
1) 2 positive comments
I liked very much the relationship between these two. Not simple wham-bam, not beatific admiration, not just mad lust. Good job. Great job, even.
The sex scene could be very hot. Actually, the scene IS hot, in spite of all the distractions it is stuffed with.
Thanks, I think. (I detect a "but" here.)
2) 2 things to improve
A-The end.
It is a major letdown. "Grabbed a pepsi and watched a serial on TV" as an end to a hot scene ? It's not only that an anal scene is missing (I can see one, but I can also see how the story is fine without), it is that this bit is a real downer. Mundane, almost sordid. (well "sordid" is too strong, but I don't find the right word). Kind of an anti-punch-line, for my taste.
"First 5000 words." Have you never grabbed a beverage and cuddled, after? (At least they don't smoke.)
B-The smart-ass-ing
Before I go into it, I must say that perpetual cheesy forced smart-assing does not amuse me, neither at thread-length in ASSD nor in stories. Especially when the same type of effect is used 20 times in a row. No matter how cute and smart the effect was initially, for my taste repetition does NOT enhance the finesse. "Repetition humor" lost its appeal for me when I was 8yo, about.
Okay, I understand where you're coming from. I disagree with your assessment, but I respect it. You won't enjoy the other stories in this series, either.
This being said, for my taste this piece was a total failure at a sex story because it is constantly switching between two modes: it could be an excellent, erotic sex story, or it could be a good tongue-in-cheek humorous piece.
As an erotic story, it is killed by the smart-ass-ing in all the wrong places. And heavily-repeated repetition "humor" in the wrong places quickly gets really annoying. And eroticism-destroying. F.ex, imagine what the paragraph "a la Morgenstein" does to erotic tension.
I see your point. But I wasn't writing the type of story you were expecting. I was writing the type of story that I write.
As a purely humor story, the sex is distracting. I can't help thinking what a good hot scene this is. And the "tender love" overtone towards the end becomes kinda corny in that context. I guess if you wanted to go the "primarily funny story" route, you'd need to change that plot end to something more suitable to be made fun of. Something like Nat's "Expanding Julie's ...".
Nope. Not my style. Good story, though, and I told Nat so.
IIRC it was Slot who noted some time ago that you can't have too much humor mixed with hot sex, because it kills it. For me it was very much the case here.
I'm sorry it wasn't more strokeworthy for you.
Now, this story has a lot of potential to be a great hot scene if you reduce the smart-ass-ing a bit, and can be a good mainly-humor story if adapted. Blessed with too many riches ... Your predicament could be worse.
Thank you for your comments, and for taking the time to participate in the Fish Tank. I'll keep your comments in mind when I work on this story.
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners don't dye. If they fade, they call the new color fashionable."
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/
http://www.asstr/org/~Gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
From: Always Horny
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 13:22:23 +0100
Gary Jordan wrote:
I wrote:
A-The end.
It is a major letdown. "Grabbed a pepsi and watched a serial on TV" as an end to a hot scene ?
"First 5000 words."
Yes, that explains.
It might be worth mentioning upfront that the submission is only part of a
longer story, for future FTs. (Hi Des! I think it was done in the past)
AH
A_H_01 at hotmail. com
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 02 Dec 2001 23:49:51 GMT
Hi again, Mat! You wrote:
AH writes (see below) about the tone - jokes mixed with serious sex. What worries me is that removing the smart-ass remarks might destroy or damage the tone. We seem to like this narrator (or this couple) because of the tone of the relationship. I don't disagree that to a degree the remarks cut into steaminess, but at the same time the jokes characterize the couple, adding flavors I wouldn't want to miss. In the end I think I had some of these same feelings AH describes. Sometimes the "remarks" do get in the way, not just of the sex but of the story. But deciding what to trim away might not be easy.
Thank you. I may be able to trim a little, or adjust a bit, but I set that tone with these people deliberately, and I won't change that. I write in my style, not Nat's or Slot's.
But there is enough other stuff in the FT to consider. I'd better get busy. :-)
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners don't dye. If they fade, they call the new color fashionable."
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/
http://www.asstr/org/~Gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
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From: Gary Jordan
Re: Chocolate Sauce, by Gary Jordan
Date: 26 Nov 2001 17:06:01 GMT
Because I am enjoined not to respond to any comments before Friday, I have to get this in quickly, before anyone has a chance to comment.
I have been writing my stories in HTML instead of text, at least the last few. I like to be able to see the story formatted as I write it. Wierd but true.
And the HTML file is what I gave to Des. I didn't take the time to convert it to text first. That's about 3 keystrokes in NoteTab Lite, but then I have to go back and put in all the asterisks and underscores where the HTML had italics or bold or underlining, and special indentation for the Morgensternian speech. You won't find them in this venue, but they do exist. (They may show up in the Fish Tank Web Page.)
So tell me that shiver has one "V" and so on, but please don't tell me where to put my asterisks <VBG>. And that's my last word on it until Saturday.
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners don't die. They're just off the deep end."
"This communicating of a man's self to his friend works two contrary effects, for it redoubleth joys, and cutteth griefs in half." - Francis Bacon, Essays