The separator between the comment pane and the story pane is moveable. Drag it up or down if you need more room to read on the screen.
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Pancakes: A Letter From Chrissy's Mom to Pat Allen, by Mat Twassel
Date: 27 Aug 2001 23:11:19 GMT
I am no good at this. Critique of someone else's stories is difficult for me. I can only try.
I loved this:
"Are you here to clean my mommy's pipes?" Chrissy said.
I can imagine the comments the baby sitter made, probably to a boyfriend on the phone (or in the house) but within earshot of Chrissy. I'd have shot her a glare, at least, and shopped for a new sitter later.
I also loved this:
"Why were you squashing that man?" she said. "Was he... hurting you?"
"Oh no," I said, trying to catch the tremble in my voice. "He wasn't hurting me--I wasn't squashing him. I was... We were... We were making love, that's all. Just making love."
"Oh," she said. "It looked like you were squashing him."
"I was squashing him, wasn't I?" I said. "But everyone needs a good squashing now and then don't they?"
Kids will put their own interpretation on anything.
Two things for improvement. This is the hard part. I don't know that I could improve any part of this. Maybe Pat Allen's response? A letter by return mail? But you've noted that it's the first in a series, so you have that covered.
How about this. Use narrower margins. And don't call anyone hunny-bunny when they have a premature ejaculation.
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Pancakes: A Letter From Chrissy's Mom to Pat Allen, by Mat Twassel
Date: 27 Aug 2001 23:25:40 GMT
Now that I've read "Chrissy's Mom", don't fire the babysitter.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Pancakes: A Letter From Chrissy's Mom to Pat Allen, by Mat Twassel
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:49:35 -0600
On 27 Aug 2001 17:52:29 GMT, desdmona22@aol.com (Desdmona22) wrote:
Pancakes:
A Letter from Chrissy's Mom to Pat Allen
Good stuff: There is a lot. The letter format makes for a strong narrative, and the phrasing and feelings expressed are great. In a related thing, the humor in the sex scene, and how it came about, is very nice. Not in an intentionally funny story way, but in the silly way that people do things, saying not quite right things (like calling a new lover "hunny-bunny).
The story isn't really stand-alone. The letter format makes that difficult, except that part of the letter really turns into more of a prosey story, around the sex scenes. That is OK, but maybe, the letter writer might preface the letter, explaining a little bit about it. Maybe, telling someone else about the thing?
I can't think of a single solid 2nd bad thing. There probably is one, but nothing stands out.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Poison Ivan
Re: Pancakes: A Letter From Chrissy's Mom to Pat Allen, by Mat Twassel
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:31:30 -0400
Whew! What a great story, or letter, or whatever it is :-)
I guess the most important thing about the story is Chrissy's mom, Shari. She's a nicely painted character. She's nice. She has a polite way of writing that makes her easy to like. Lots of good examples of this from the very beginning: congratulating for the babies, apologizing for not introducing herself, thanking her for referring Daniel. Shari is immediately set in my mind as one of those nice ladies with little kids who lives down the street. I bet she gives the nighborhood kids cookies sometimes.
I did think maybe the transition between Soccer Mom to a woman who wants to give Daniel a "good-bye fuck" was a trifle abrupt. I loved tht she got to using those fuck words eventually, but there was so much hesitation earlier (which I liked, by the way), that I thought she needed a little more work to get there.
As for being stand-alone, I didn't know who "Al" was. I thought the man in MyFrThAl stories was always unnamed! Admitedly, I haven't read many of the Mark Aster's stories, so I'm not an expert. In any case, at first I was confused who Al was and what his relationship was to everyone, and I didn't figure it out for a long time.
I think some of the problem may have been from all the ambiguous this's and that's in the first couple paragraphs. While it helps define Shari as someone who doesn't like to come right out and talk about what actually happened between her and Al, it made it hard to figure out exactly who these people were.
But mostly this story was wonderful stuff piled on top of more wonderful stuff. I especially liked the ending, when Shari and Chrissy went out for pancakes. After everything was said and done, Shari is shaken out of her slump, and we get to celebrate with pancakes. Just perfect.
Damn, I did my two and two, and I didn't get to talk about the sex scene!
Maybe next time.
Poison Ivan
From: Nick
Re: Pancakes: A Letter From Chrissy's Mom to Pat Allen, by Mat Twassel
Date: 29 Aug 2001 5:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Oh brilliant! Like pleasecains story, I found this one, then lost it again. Google seems up the creek at the moment, so I'm commenting by memory.
Firstly, I thought it was very well observed. At least it seemed that way to me. Mat seems to have psyched himself up to be Shari when he wrote the story - perhaps a slightly worrying concept!). Perhaps she was a little too Bridget Jonesy, but at least she was 3 dimensional.
Second, I thought the scene when she was surprised by her daughter was well done. I can't say I liked it because it was quite harrowing, but producing fluff which everyone likes is not the mark of a quality story - oh, I suppose I'd better add IMHO.
The letter format is potentially a good one, depending on how it develops, but it needs to be done carefully. I think these things work because of what isn't said in a letter, rather than what is. (I remember receiving a 2 line e-mail from someone once - it read like a life-story - precisely because of the unwritten background) This came across as a monologue rather than a letter, and eventually evolved into straight narrative and ceased to be a letter.
Finally, I was a bit vague as to how the characters might have related to the addressee (as opposed to the reader). Their relationship to the writer was clear enough, but there didn't seem to be a stronmg enough link.
Cheers
Nick
From: Ray
Re: Pancakes: A Letter From Chrissy's Mom to Pat Allen, by Mat Twassel
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:56:24 -0400
The following is story # 6 in The Fish Tank, we invite your comments under the same guidelines:
2 positive comments
2 things for improvement
Try not to repeat!
Submissions and comments are being stored at: www.asstr/~Desdmona/fishtank/base
Pancakes:
A Letter from Chrissy's Mom to Pat Allen by Mat Twassel ==========================================
First, let me say that I don't think it quite stands alone. It's missing some sort of simple justification somehow. Some excuse for the need to write this letter and initiate first contact with this total stranger, now her ideal man's mate. Possibly a simple lead in paragraph stating that she was thinking about Alan again, alluding to their night together is not necessary as that is in the letter itself. But the urge to write needs an initial basis, possibly wondering about the woman who got what she wanted and had tried to send in a 'second stringer' to appease here need?
This is basically a shy and somewhat bashful woman who somehow seems distrustful of her own sexuality, yet nothing really establishes exactly how big a step this letter is for her. Possibly a light one line comment in the needed lead in paragraph.
I liked Shari's reaction to suddenly finding Chrissy standing in the doorway. Even with the onset of orgasm, motherhood rears it's head and she's off to protect her baby from this 'obscene act' taking place before her eyes.
I also liked Chrissy's simple description of what she'd seen. "Why were you trying to squash that man?" I can just visualize mama pressing herself downwards and forward, and how it might look like an attempt to squash the man beneath her into the bed itself.
Denny cleaning up was a good touch.
Comment: You have indicated that this is to be an on-going succession of letter between Pat and Shari. You might give thought to keeping any 'narrative' efforts in the single POV of Chrissy's mom, with only Pat's letters themselves switching to her POV. That way, with each successive letter, you can establish it as a response, either to or from, and end with a short narrative note containing Shari's reactions or thought.
With a lead in paragraph, you might also consider a closing narrative paragraph, at least for the first one ... commenting about her further doubts over mailing it ... and her surprise at herself for actually doing it after she posts it.
Ray
From: PleaseCain
Re: Pancakes: A Letter From Chrissy's Mom to Pat Allen, by Mat Twassel
Date: 30 Aug 2001 04:37:35 GMT
"I started out by tracing my fingertips around his face ..."
This is the start of two killer paragraphs. Sensual, vivid, erotic, clever. What I like most about this sweet spot is that as the characters explore one another sexually, you are similarly caressing the language of expression. It all builds on itself, through nice imagery (ex., the mixer and the batter), alliteration (ex., series of S's), repetitions and parallel constructions (ex., sentences beginning with I).
I think some of the language can be pared - for instance, I don't like "I rode him and rocked him and rolled him," which sounds to me more like an out-of-place Koko Taylor blues adlib - and yet I am reluctant to cite many such examples for fear of inhibiting what you are doing here.
The characterization is strong. The man and woman are both likable, which I suppose is besides the point. The woman emerges as frank and plainspoken - perhaps plainspoken is not quite right, seeing as how she inserts such artful prose in a letter to a stranger - and a loving mother. And even third-person Daniel is a fully realized character.
I don't know who Al is, but that is mostly insignificant because the story stands on its own. I assume he is Mark Aster's incredibly lucky male narrator. After I post this, I will read his original story. I say "mostly insignificant" because I'm not certain why she is sending such a letter to a woman she doesn't know.
Is that two things yet? Then, some of your periods are followed by two spaces, others by one (similarly, your dashes and ellipses). Yeah.
Fantastic outing.
Cain
From: Anne747
Re: Pancakes: A Letter From Chrissy's Mom to Pat Allen, by Mat Twassel
Date: 31 Aug 2001 02:10:17 GMT
Desdmona wrote:
The following is story # 6 in The Fish Tank, we invite your comments under the same guidelines:
I'm going to bow out this week. I've left it too late for no repeats, and to Alexis - I never quite 'get' humilation pieces, so I don't know that I could help out.
To Matt, yes it does stand alone (although at the start I had a few moments where I couldn't wrap my brain around the various characters).
To Alexis - any story that .you. the writer is interested in, is worth continuing.
Next week, I'm planning on taking some time Monday night!
Anne
To reply by mail - remove the b in the address
Anne's Erotic Story Archive - http://annejet.pair.com/ Free Story FAQ - http://annejet.pair.com/fsfaq/
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Pancakes: A Letter From Chrissy's Mom to Pat Allen, by Mat Twassel
Date: 02 Sep 2001 14:58:50 GMT
Thanks very much to all the readers who offered criticism of "Pancakes," and especial thanks to Desdmona for having me in last week's Fish Tank. Whew! A draining experience, but a lot of fun, too, especially since everyone had to say two nice things about my story. The praise was almost as nice as being able to swim around with Alexis.
Not that the sharp-eyed and ever-vigilant readers gave us a lot of time for carefree frolic and uninhibited get- togethering. In the case of "Pancakes," you guys picked up on just about every flaw and defect I'd worried about going in. Many of you said the story didn't stand alone very well. Many of you mentioned that the beginning was cloudy, the motives of the letter-writer were unclear, and her lapse into sexpot was slightly unexpected - perhaps a touch out of character. A few of you questioned whether the sex scene was overdone. And most of you wondered whether the ending was enough, whether in fact there was an ending, or whether it simply wound down or drifted off into to-be-continued land.
Guilty as charged. But let me present a defense anyway. When the piece was first written I didn't really intend it as a standalone story. I'd read Mark Aster's "Chrissy's Mom" in which the hero of My Friends the Allens (nameless in the series, but I called him Al for convenience) meets Shari (Chrissy's Mom) while babysitting his friends' precocious niece, Valerie, at the museum. That story raises some interesting questions about these particular people, nice people, having what on the surface appears to be a hugely successful one- night stand. At the end of the story, quite content with himself, the MyFrThAl hero lightly considers the longer term needs of Chrissy's Mom, and he ends up with the idea of having his SO, Pat, look through her Rolodex for a potential partner for Shari. I wondered what, if anything, might come of that. Aster's story gave us a good picture of Shari, but it really didn't dig into her future. My plan was nothing more than to explore what happens next. My vision was that there would be a series of letters between Shari and Pat, and in fact Shari wrote three letters (of which Pancakes is the first) and Pat answered them all. What's left is for Mark Aster to write "Chrissy's Mom II."
- Mat Twassel
Note that all the comments archived here were culled from active discussions occuring in the Usenet newsgroup alt.sex.stories.d. If you want to contribute to the discussion, please join us in ASSD and say your piece. Everyone is welcome.
If you do not know how to read Usenet newsgroups, there is a nice, free web interface on Google: http://groups.google.com/. If you have any problems, send us email. If we're lucky, we'll get you set up and contributing in no time!
If you have not done so, please read the Comment Guidelines. We ask that all comments include two positive remarks and two suggestions for improvement. Please, try not to repeat!
From: Desdmona
Re: Pancakes: A Letter From Chrissy's Mom to Pat Allen, by Mat Twassel
Date: 27 Aug 2001 20:18:36 GMT
Mat~
There's so many positive things I want to say but I'm caught by my own guidelines.
Goodness, you sure can turn a phrase. e.g. "He danced smooth. So gentle it was almost as if he weren't there..." The reason I like this so well, is not only the obvious that the man is a smooth dancer, but it also punctuates the suggestion of how she feels-he's not Al, she doesn't *feel* Daniel's presence. If she were dancing with Al, and he was a smooth dancer, she'd still be very aware of every point of contact. So subtle, so telling. perfect.
Speaking of phrases, in a couple of paragraphs later you use, "He swamped me." I feel a little torn by this because, on the one hand I think it's a great visual statement, but on the other hand I'm a little confused on what exactly it means. Maybe if you gave an example or two to illustrate what it means, it would even stand out more for me.
One more phrase that I can't resist bringing up, "...and my...my sex shivered, threatened to flood." Such rich rich words. They give me goosebumps.
Speaking of goosebumps... I'm trying to cool down from the sex. It was so UNordianary. It built dramatically taking me with it. Fabulous.
Let's see...while I'm talking about the sex... you use the word "waggle" twice. I think because this is such a strong verb, it jumps off the page. When I come across the word a second time though, I thought it was too much.
Finally, I think this story could stand on its own IF there is just a tiny bit more explanation as to relationship of the characters. Of course when you're writing a letter to someone that knows all the people involved you wouldn't necessarily describe the relationships, but in this case, just a little more background might help.
Thank you very much Mat for allowing us the privilege to comment on this story.
Desdmona