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From: Souvie
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:20:11 -0400
On Mon, 24 Jun 2002 16:10:50 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com>
wrote:
I've decided only to submit one story into the FishTank this week because of
all the great stories to read over on ASSM in the romance festival. So, my
suggestion is after you finish commenting on the FishTank, rush over to ASSM
and read a few of the stories, and make sure to let the authors know how you
felt about their story.
The following is a complete story. It is part of the anniversary
celebration. It is1,804 words in length. FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
Positive: I like how the narrator's attention wanders. Very realistic
and reminds me a lot of myself. lol My middle name should have been
"scatterbrained."
Positive: The lazy, relaxed feel of the story. No rushing about, no
pressure anywhere, just a lazy Sunday type of story. <g>
Negative: A couple of words capitalized that I don't think should be
capitalized.
Negative: Maybe a tad too much information about the neighbors. We
still would have had a good picture of them without going overboard on
the background.
- Souvie (first in line for a change)
From: Frank McCoy
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:06:06 -0500
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
1) 2 positive comments
Liked the lazy feeling of the story.
Felt like summer at it's best.
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
Either the fish-tank was overdone, or the view of the neighbors was.
The story should have focused more on one or the other.
3) Try not to repeat!
/ ' / ™
,-/-, . __ /
(/ / ((/|/ / </ <
From: Iconoclast
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 04:30:59 GMT
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote in
news:uhev91b3hgu3ee@news.supernews.com:
The Fish Tank - My Aqua View (Voy, MF Cons, No Sex)
By ray1031@cac.net
A mood story, pure and simple. Not usually my cuppa, but it can be
very effective as a part of some larger work. Seeing that this is
entire of itself, I will critique it on that basis.
The narration all builds to the last paragraph, without
foreshadowing the ending. But after one has finished the ending
seems obvious. Nice work.
As a mood piece all of the parts hang together. Fish, birds, couple
next door, all display the juice of comingling and romance. The
mood feels like Saturday,and the voyeurism is all cases feels
interested but not overdone. I can feel this character, and
empathise.
As a final comment on the good things, this piece reminded me very
much of a poem I read about a million years ago (late sixties)
called, I believe "Frogs". This was written by a man who was also
an elderly (at the time I thought he was elderly - he was probably
about fifty, a mere youngster) and a college professor. His poem
was about watching a young couple of undergrads in love on the
campus. I probably haven't thought about that in thirty years, so
this story was very evocative for me.
Quibbles. Ah, there are always some, lest we believe we walk on
water.
The names. Now I know that Desdmona was a required character. But,
Celia, Conard (Conrad?) and Alexis Jordan were just too self-
referential for me. I have read some very "in" science fiction
stories with names taken from Fandom, and it just slows the flow
for me. I don't usually consider names important, but when they hit
you in the face like this it kinda detracts from the flow of the
story.
A criticism of the story not in and of itself but only where it
appeared: ASSD. Where Conard and Alexis were engaging in sunscreen
foreplay I expected more sex, despite the nosex tag. But here was
also a MF tag. Perhaps this should be renoved. Not imprtant, but an
expectation nonetheless.
As I said, would be fine for me as part of a larger story.
Iconoclast
From: Mat Twassel
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: 26 Jun 2002 17:08:17 GMT
The events you've picked for this story are fine as is the overall structure.
I really like the entities and the movement between them: mating fish, nesting
cardinals, sexy neighbors. I also like the main character observing all this.
I might have picked a slightly different outcome, but your conclusion, at least
the idea of it, is more than adequate.
What is not adequate is your mechanics. You need to examine every sentence for
clarity. There are many mistakes, some of them humorous; for example:
Still, mating or not, he enjoyed relaxing and watching his fish swimming within
his custom built tank.
You need to examine every paragraph for flow. I don't mind that the narrator's
attention drifts, and I like much of the tangential detail, but I think the
story doesn't move well enough.
Consider this section:
Ivan decided on one last cup of coffee and another twenty
minutes appreciating his fish before getting started, rising
to fetch another cup.
As Ivan was returning to his chair, he looked in the Fish
Tank for the Desdmona and didn't see her at first. He had to
shift in his seat to find her and when he did, she was
behind a few taller plants with one of the male Angels. They
were swimming in tight circles above one of the broad leafed
plants he'd put in. 'Ah, maybe,' he thought, before being
distracted by a sight beyond the tank, outside the window.
<
Recast the sentences to improve the flow. For example:
Ivan decided he'd allow himself twenty more minutes to appreciate his fish.
Those chores could wait that long. He strode into the kitchen for a fresh cup
of coffee, and when he returned less than a minute later, full coffee cup in
hand, Desdmona was missing. Anxiously, Ivan peered through the glass. Nothing
but placcid water and desultory bubbles and two of the males hovering
motionless in front of the little wheelbarrow. Ivan moved to the side of the
tank. Ah, there she was, that little cutie, nearly hidden behind some tall,
broadleafed plants. And there, too, was the third male. He was swimming around
and around Desdmona in smooth, ever-tightening circles. This was getting good.
Ivan leaned closer, his face almost pressing against the glass. Desdmona
wiggled. Ivan's coffee sloshed. Some of it spilled onto his pants. "Damn," Ivan
said, brushing at the wet spot. Guiltily he glanced away from the fish tank.
Something was going on outside his window.
- Mat Twassel
Mat's Erotic Calendar at http://calendar.atEros.com
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:00:20 -0500
On Mon, 24 Jun 2002 16:10:50 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com>
wrote:
This is a story about voyeurism, and to me the whole thing is all
about observations. Ivan observes his neighbors, his fish, and maybe
everything else around him. If the intent of the tale is to
illustrate this by emphasizing observations, it does it well.
Fishy love, birdie love, and human love, Ivan sees a lot of love all
around. The ending sets all that off nicely.
I think that some of the paragraphs could be tightened up, or split.
Assuming you want to keep all the detail in, some of it needs to be
cut up into bite size pieces.
Ivan is observing many things, but not himself very much. When he
watches Con and Alex, I'd think he'd notice a reaction to his
observations. While we could imagine our own, in this case it might
be nice to see what he is thinking at that moment.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/
For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Always Horny
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 10:37:43 +0200
The Fish Tank - My Aqua View (Voy, MF Cons, No Sex) By ray1031@cac.net
positive: The author can write; he can write at will; he can write lazily; He
can write about nothing and do it right, at length.
Negative: He does it. At length.
Or more specifically, this is a story that gave me a feel of "exposition".
Someone describes what's going on, but in a way that does not draw into the
story. I was never drawn in. Like I attended an uninteresting lecture, or like I
was waiting for the introductory exposition paragraph to finish and for the
story to start.
Maybe more feelings could fix that? Maybe a less "professoral" tone? (don't know
why it feels "professoral", tho. The tenses, maybe?)
Positive: There's a feel of "good descriptions" through the writing that
impresses me. Even through the parts I dislike for professoral feeling or for
ass-licking (see below) or for whatever, the descriptive part shows through and
forces my respect. Choice of words that are just exact, just right quantity of
adjectives, something like that.
Negative: the use of ASSDer names. Not only does it feel clique-ish and childish
(last I did it myself I was 12yo), but it also feels horribly cheapo. It's
subjective, but it makes me feels like the author is using this as a device for
getting an audience on the cheap. That he's bribing some strokes out of the
group.
Knowing him a little, I'll grant that he prolly did not mean it that bad, that
it was just the mutual admiration society spilling over. But still, there's a
definite opportunity for vast improvement right here.
Oh yeah, one last thing: it would prolly help if the end wasn't telephoned so
many miles ahead. Seriously, who did not see it coming from the first third of
the story? IMO it detracts from the enjoyment.
FWIW
AH
A_H_01 at hotmail. com
From: Alexis Siefert
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: 27 Jun 2002 21:37:45 GMT
Made it in, just under the wire. Didn't think I would <g> I wrote a nice,
long commentary, then went back and read the other comments. As it often
happens, I got dinged for not replying earlier-all of my suggestions had
already been taken, so it was back to the drafting board.
First off, I can attest that finding a creative, non-schmaltzy way to include
the 'required' elements of a fish tank and a character named Desdmona isn't
easy. It's a wonderful writing exercise, and I thank Ray both for suggesting
it, and for providing a good example for the rest of us to follow. It turns
out that "Desdmona" is a wonderful name for a fish species. It's feminine,
it's 'pretty', and, after spending some time recently in the pet store
(replacing some deceased fish of my own), I can attest that it's better than a
lot of species names out there <g> And, of course it would be an angel fish.
What else would it be? Not a fighting beta, not a guppy. An Angel fish. Nice
touch. Very sweet.
And the description of the Desdmona! My goodness, Ray… you've basically
described her as a vagina without actually using the word <g> (with the
exception of the blue, of course). An overall pink blush, red lips…pretty
much just screams sex. Don't misunderstand me - this is a good thing.
I know there have been some comments about the character names. Personally, I
think that they work just fine <g>. Seriously, I don't know if the non-assd
reader would find the character names at all unusual. They're probably a bit
jarring for the assd regulars-unless you're expecting a story based on ASSD,
it's not often that you actually see names like Celia (hi, celia!).
Unfortunately, "Alexis" tends to be a rather popular porn name (darn my parents
and their lack of foresight), so there is, perhaps, a bit of an expectation
created in the reader's mind. What Ray does at one point is shorten it to
'Alex,' (which is also what I personally tend to do). 'Alex' is more sedate
and less graphic. It seems to be more acceptable and proper than 'Alexis' is.
This brings be right back to the comment I made above. "Desdmona" isn't a
name that one runs across on a daily (or weekly, or monthly) basis. It would
have been very easy to ruin the reality of the story by calling someone
Desdmona for no apparent reason. Yes, parents come up with very odd names with
which to saddle their children (no, don't ask. I'm NOT telling you what
"Alexis" is short for), but 'Desdmona' is odd enough so as to be unbelievable.
Good job here, Ray.
Okay, I mentioned expectations above. Yes, the story is coded (no-sex), but I
think that the way Ray's written the massage oil scene between Con and Alex is
a bit of a cheat. It leaves an unfinished feeling. IMHO, the touching,
massaging, kissing, nipping, etc., is close enough to sex as to almost
'require' more. Either more description of the massage or more actual action.
As it is, it feels cut short.
Ray's done a very good job of catching the feel of internal narration. He
flits from subject to subject-like our own thoughts do when we're observing the
things around us. From the fish to the neighbors to the fish to the neighbors
to the birds to the fish, etc…it's restless and disjointed, but the narrator
is unsettled, unhappy, and the jumpy scene changing gives us that feeling
almost from the beginning.
One possible suggestion - Mat mentions that there are some flow problems within
the paragraphs. I tried reading it out loud and I have to agree. One thing
that might help is to try rewriting it from Ivan's POV instead of from as an
omnipotent narrator. It's a very personal story. Voyeurism is observation,
and technically the omnipotent narrator POV is valid here, I think it detaches
the reader from the story.
Overall, I did enjoy this one. I like the different take on Spring Fever. I
like the 'love is all around and basically it stinks' view. There are some
mechanical problems that can easily be corrected with a careful proofreading
and some sentence restructuring. Mat covered that issue pretty thoroughly, so
I won't spend anymore time on it. You've got a great feel for the visual
descriptions and the observations.
Alexis
"The difference between girls' soccer and boys' soccer? We make it look good."
ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/Alexis_S/
http://www.asstr.org/~Alexis_S/
And, of course, The Web's Best Illustrated Adult Fiction is at
http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: PleaseCain
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: 27 Jun 2002 23:22:45 GMT
Romance is in the air, and I like it. This is a sweet, life-affirming
vignette, just what you wanted it to be, so mission accomplished. I also like
the fish-owner's shop talk, which aids characterization and fulfills that
mandate some writers swear to, where you teach or introduce the reader to
something new with every outing.
The punctuation should be edited for desired effect, particularly a few of the
commas, and more so the phrases and word-choices, where you use several words
to convey what a thoughtful, pungent verb could accomplish by itself (I
particularly noticed the lackadaisical word "moved"). I'm not sure about that
last sentence, either: combined with his earlier carping about his lovelife,
that last sentence strikes a discordant tone compared to the rest of the piece.
It struck me as a tad too pitiful.
Thanks for sharing another of your stories!
Cain
From: Alexis Siefert
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: 27 Jun 2002 23:41:12 GMT
I'm going to try this again. My first response never showed up on my server
(and it usually only takes a minute, at most), and I don't see it at google.
So, forgive me if this is a repeat.
Made it in, just under the wire. Didn't think I would <g> I wrote a nice,
long commentary, then went back and read the other comments. As it often
happens, I got dinged for not replying earlier-all of my suggestions had
already been taken, so it was back to the drafting board.
First off, I can attest that finding a creative, non-schmaltzy way to include
the 'required' elements of a fish tank and a character named Desdmona isn't
easy. It's a wonderful writing exercise, and I thank Ray both for suggesting
it, and for providing a good example for the rest of us to follow. It turns
out that "Desdmona" is a wonderful name for a fish species. It's feminine,
it's 'pretty', and, after spending some time recently in the pet store
(replacing some deceased fish of my own), I can attest that it's better than a
lot of species names out there <g> And, of course it would be an angel fish.
What else would it be? Not a fighting beta, not a guppy. An Angel fish. Nice
touch. Very sweet.
And the description of the Desdmona! My goodness, Ray… you've basically
described her as a vagina without actually using the word <g> (with the
exception of the blue, of course). An overall pink blush, red lips…pretty
much just screams sex. Don't misunderstand me - this is a good thing.
I know there have been some comments about the character names. Personally, I
think that they work just fine <g>. Seriously, I don't know if the non-assd
reader would find the character names at all unusual. They're probably a bit
jarring for the assd regulars-unless you're expecting a story based on ASSD,
it's not often that you actually see names like Celia (hi, celia!).
Unfortunately, "Alexis" tends to be a rather popular porn name (darn my parents
and their lack of foresight), so there is, perhaps, a bit of an expectation
created in the reader's mind. What Ray does at one point is shorten it to
'Alex,' (which is also what I personally tend to do). 'Alex' is more sedate
and less graphic. It seems to be more acceptable and proper than 'Alexis' is.
This brings be right back to the comment I made above. "Desdmona" isn't a
name that one runs across on a daily (or weekly, or monthly) basis. It would
have been very easy to ruin the reality of the story by calling someone
Desdmona for no apparent reason. Yes, parents come up with very odd names with
which to saddle their children (no, don't ask. I'm NOT telling you what
"Alexis" is short for), but 'Desdmona' is odd enough so as to be unbelievable.
Good job here, Ray.
Okay, I mentioned expectations above. Yes, the story is coded (no-sex), but I
think that the way Ray's written the massage oil scene between Con and Alex is
a bit of a cheat. It leaves an unfinished feeling. IMHO, the touching,
massaging, kissing, nipping, etc., is close enough to sex as to almost
'require' more. Either more description of the massage or more actual action.
As it is, it feels cut short.
Ray's done a very good job of catching the feel of internal narration. He
flits from subject to subject-like our own thoughts do when we're observing the
things around us. From the fish to the neighbors to the fish to the neighbors
to the birds to the fish, etc…it's restless and disjointed, but the narrator
is unsettled, unhappy, and the jumpy scene changing gives us that feeling
almost from the beginning.
One possible suggestion - Mat mentions that there are some flow problems within
the paragraphs. I tried reading it out loud and I have to agree. One thing
that might help is to try rewriting it from Ivan's POV instead of as an
omnipotent narrator. It's a very personal story. Voyeurism is observation,
and although technically the omnipotent narrator POV is valid here, I think it
detaches the reader from the story. I'd like it to be more personal.
Overall, I did enjoy this one. I like the different take on Spring Fever. I
like the 'love is all around and basically it stinks' view. There are some
mechanical problems that can easily be corrected with a careful proofreading
and some sentence restructuring. Mat covered that issue pretty thoroughly, so
I won't spend anymore time on it. You've got a great feel for the visual
descriptions and the observations.
Alexis
"The difference between girls' soccer and boys' soccer? We make it look good."
ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/Alexis_S/
http://www.asstr.org/~Alexis_S/
And, of course, The Web's Best Illustrated Adult Fiction is at
http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: Desdmona
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:53:15 -0400
The Fish Tank - My Aqua View (Voy, MF Cons, No Sex)
By ray1031@cac.net
Ray~
This story is bittersweet, isn't it? Love is all around and yet, there is no
love for Ivan. If you hadn't handled it so well, there could have been a
danger of him sounding pathetic. Instead, it feels more like a slice of
time, out of his life for us to glimpse. Only the partial story, just like
the neighbors, the birds, the fish. I like that parallel. And because Ivan
finds joy in his observations, rather than sheer melancholy, it gives us
hope for his future.
An angelfish, huh? I have to take a moment and bask in that description. I
hope you don't mind if I even preen at the idea of being thought of as, "one
of a kind."
OK, back to the job at hand.
I agree with Alexis, choosing Desdmona as a name for a breed of fish was
very creative, and it allows for using the name without seeming forced.
I think the problem with using familiar people in a story automatically
causes us, as readers, to mentally compare the authors perceptions, with our
own. For instance, I'm sure there are those who definitely don't think of
Desdmona as one of a kind, and I actually stopped mid-story and wondered
about Celia being a pet store owner. I also stopped and wondered, does
Alexis really have big boobs? So, these things take us out of the story.
They're fun, and in this forum, they work. But generally speaking, I don't
think it's a good idea to take the reader out of the story too much,
interrupting the flow and all that.
That's actually a repeat, so I'll forge ahead.
I would suggest rewording any phrase or sentence that includes, seemed to,
looked as if, began - doing anything. They're kind of wishy-washy. They're
easy to use, especially in voyeurism stories. You can't be sure of every
action as a bystander, but you can be fairly certain of what you see.
For example, "His arms moved vigorously then as his hands seemed
to move up and down, side to side and in large circles beneath her."
If you tell the reader how the arms are moving vigorously, then the reader
will be able to easily interpret what the hands are doing.
And in this example, "Ivan decided that he'd been lazy long enough and began
rising to begin his chores."
Began rising to begin his chores is pretty awkward.
The other suggestion I have comes at the end of the story. You've just done
a great job of describing an idyllic spring scene, all around. Ivan
obviously has enjoyed it, so it seems too quick a jump from idyllic scene to
awful allergies, bird drippings etc. Maybe some incident could spur him to
these next thoughts, he sneezes, or he actually sees the bird drippings on
the car. Just some small thing to make the transition a little smoother.
I've enjoyed reading this very much. Creative, poignant, and fun. Thanks Ray
for your part in adding to the FishTank.
Des
From: Father Ignatius
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 17:13:04 +0200
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote in message
news:uhoqrmp787b7a4@news.supernews.com ...
[ ...]
I also stopped and wondered, does Alexis really have big boobs?
That's a very good question. What's the answer?
Nat
"Father Ignatius" <Father Ignatius at ANTISPAMananzi dot co dot za>
http://www.asstr.org/~FatherIgnatius/Stories.html
The Web's Best Illustrated Adult Fiction is at http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
"Only a woman can describe the sensations within a Greek sandwich." Van
Falmouth
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 11:13:02 -0500
On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 17:13:04 +0200, "Father Ignatius"
<FatherIgnatius@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> wrote:
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote in message
news:uhoqrmp787b7a4@news.supernews.com ...
[ ...]
I also stopped and wondered, does Alexis really have big boobs?
That's a very good question. What's the answer?
Does it matter?
The important thing is, does she feel comfortable running topless or
naked? How else can you enjoy nude jogging; it isn't really nude if
her sports bra covers the good things and she can't go without it ;-)
OTOH, they can make decorative targets in nude paintball or watergun
games, because they move in interesting ways. The only other thing
quite so flexible is the targets between a guy's legs.
Does it matter if those things are big or not?
It does make it easier to spot them while clothed, though. I figure
that as a way of compensation, if you aren't so well-endowed you
should make up for it by showing them off more. That way, everyone
will realize that your smaller size doesn't mean you don't have
something worth playing with. Or tasting. Or, well, whatever you are
into.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/
For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Ray
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:08:08 -0400
My Reviewers,
I'm sorry about the delay in responding. I've just spent three days
reformatting and rebuilding my hard drive. But, enough excuses ...
Strapped to the small chair in the center of the room I was trying to see
beyond the glare of the rooms single lamp. This was impossible though as it
was adjusted to shine directly into my eyes and obscure the identities of
my questioners. I think there were ten shadowy forms gathered in the
darkness beyond the lamp's glare.
The first comments and demands rolled out of the darkness, followed by
others in rapid-fire succession allowing me no time for comment. It wasn't
until each of the darker blobs in the darkness had made comment that I was
allowed the opportunity to speak. It was a demanded response then, as a
thick black rubber hose suddenly slapped against the chair between my
slightly parted thighs.
I was properly intimidated and began speaking quickly:
Thank you all for your comments, critiques, criticisms and compliments about
the story in question.
Repeated comments include:
"Good job on capturing the lazy Saturday feeling"
"Creative use of the name Desdmona"
"Good descriptive abilities"
"The use of ASSDer's names is distracting"
"Good idea but some structuring problems"
"We want more sex!!!!"
"Are Alexis' Boobs really that big?"
"POV"
Let me get to this .... Thanks to Souvie and everyone for mentioning that I
had acheived that lazy Saturday morning feeling .... it's a major part of
what I wanted from this story. A man trying to relax and unwind on a
Saturday morning before begining his 'work' around the house.
Thank you for the comments about creatively using the name Desdmona .... it
was the thought of Desdmona as an "angel" fish swimming around in her "tank"
that the story was built around. Everything else was fluff and asides to
ultimately support this, distract from this, and eventually set the mood
before drawing the story back to it's central theme.
I thank everyone for your 'positive' comments concerning my descriptive
writing abilities. Especially when they praise my choices in the three
primary charcater groups and (according to AH) my skills in getting my
points across - regardless. I also thank everyone for their more negative
comments about the sentence structuring and less obtuse viewpoints .... This
was - ultimately - one of those stories where I built a mental picture of
what I wanted to say, typed out those things in the basic order and feel
that I wanted, then ran into a wall trying to reach the story 'flow' that
I'd hoped for.
Reading, rereading and rewriting certain points multiple times and in
various ways simply did not help this time. So far, in my submissions to
ASS I have really used only two people for editing work on my stories. Our
World-Class Curmudgeon and sometimes editor <g> and the person for who's
efforts this story was to praise. Denny was buried in ROM fest stories at
the time, and this was all about Des, so I was left to my own devices and my
head simply wouldn't work properly .... I will be reworking the sentence
structuring though and improving the flow. It 'will' go through one or both
of my editors before seeing the light of day again.
There were comments from many of you cancerning the use of fellow Author's
names. Maybe it was a mistake and caused pauses in the read, but I have to
admit two things here: 1 - I have been fascinated with the idea since
reading my first Fantasy Train story and seen my first 'Fest/Anniversary'
parody story. 2 - I've wanted to test myself and see if I could handle such
a use without completely falling on my face and the Anniv story seemed the
most logical place for it. I used "Conard" because it is a name, no matter
how rare, whereas "Conjugate" isn't, really. It was the recent 'play'
between Conjugate and Alexis on ASSD that paired them for this story. Celia
became a pet shop owner because animals and pets can often have calming and
normalizing effects for multiples (not for all of course and I don't know
how our Celia feels about animals). Finally, of course, Ivan was used as the
principle character because of his efforts in helping Desdmona to establish
and support the Fish Tank (I thought he could use recognition as well).
Alexis .... I'd love to accept credit for the Vaginal colors and imagery ...
but I was really thinking along the lines of blusher, lipstick and eyeshadow
..... been looking closely have we? <G>
Souvie .... I may have gone a little over the top on the neighbor's
descriptions .... not sure I did, but I'll look at it closely. So far, your
middle names are Sexy, Saucy and Scatterbrained .... long name you got. <g>
Frank .... You say I should have focused more on one scene more than the
others in the story and here I do disagree with you. I was trying for a bit
of a balance in the story with almost equal time to all three aspect of the
story. As Souvie mentioned, perhaps I included too much description of the
neighbors themselves, but I do believe that part of the mood for this story
is the equality of effort to all three included scenes.
Mat .... As I mentioned, I ran into a mental block when it came to further
refinements of the sentence structuring .... I will be working on it ....
thanks for the pointer. The ending, though, will stand. I may add a sentence
as Des suggested, in setup before getting there though.
AH ..... Careful, my hat is in danger of no longer fitting on my head. I am
a scribbler and story-teller, not a writer. I lack certain skills that would
be necessary for that appellation. Thanks for the compliment though. I think
your other comments were covered above.
Jeff .... I may include a single comment or two about Ivan's reactions to
his observations, but no more than that. My original 'take' is that he isn't
about reacting, only relaxing. He is focusing outwards only in an effort to
let go of the tensions he has built within himself during the preceeding
week.
Iconoclast .... Yes, this could be a good introduction to a much larger
story .... especially if his neighbors were constantly inviting him to
parties as an excuse to 'set him up' with their current idea of a perfect
partner. <g> I'm glad that the story prompted such a memory for you ...
don't think I ever saw the poem Frogs. Glad you mostly seemed to enjoy the
experience.
Cain ... The character was not intended to appear pitiful in any form.
Wistful maybe, melancholy maybe, but not pitiful. That was part of my
original reason for not including Ivan's own thoughts, to avoid that
possibility. Bittersweet and a touch of sadness is okay, but .... I'll look
very carefully at that. Thanks.
Desdmona .... I thought you might enjoy being an Angel Fish ... <g> Even if
they are one of the more cannibalistic of the tropical fish. As I
mentioned, I was aware of the pausing I would cause people in using some of
the names from our group, but it was something I had wanted to 'try', once.
I will most likely not do so again unless I actually do write a Fantasy
Train story.
As for comments on Alexis' purported lush endowments by nature .... My only
real comment somewhat echoes Jeff's .... It really does not matter. There
have been many asides posted to ASSD since I arrived concerning their
mammoth nature, their mystic levitation capabilities and their protective
nature (A comment was once made of Alexis walking into a wall and her nose
didn't touch it <g>). Such comments have not been denied by and have
occassionally been semi-supported by our Alexis. So, her size has, in some
ways, become a simply accepted fact and was used by me as such. Outside of
that, there is no relevant purpose in idle speculation ..... I mean, she's
not going to list her measurements for us, so who really cares?
Again, I thank you one and all for your comments and pointers about my
little story. I'm glad that reading it mostly seemed a pleasant experience.
Now, if one of you would kindly untie me from this chair .....
Hey, wait .... where are you all going? Uh, could someone untie me? Uh,
people ..... Okay, a joke's a joke but this is going a little far, don't you
think? Uh .... Hey, will someone please untie me? But he was alone and no
one heard the comment .....
Ray
From: celia batau
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:54:37 -0700
hi Ray.
"Ray" <ray1031@cac.net> wrote in message
news:Q9GU8.2772$6d.123862@newsfeed.slurp.net ...
Hey, wait .... where are you all going? Uh, could someone untie me? Uh,
people ..... Okay, a joke's a joke but this is going a little far, don't
you
think? Uh .... Hey, will someone please untie me? But he was alone and
no
one heard the comment .....
arms wrap around Ray's neck from behind, and lips gently brush his ear.
"untie you, Ray? but just when you're getting comfortable?"
-cb
ps. we liked the story.
celia batau's story site: http://www.myplanet.net/pinataheart/stories.htm.
Beautiful people
living on a beautiful star
Sweet people
on a beautiful star from far away
Please remember
me sometime.
-Pizzicato Five
From: Ray
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 01:58:56 -0400
"celia batau" <pinataheart@bigplanet.com> wrote in message
news:1025762453.247843@news2.bigplanet.com ...
hi Ray.
"Ray" <ray1031@cac.net> wrote in message
news:Q9GU8.2772$6d.123862@newsfeed.slurp.net ...
Hey, wait .... where are you all going? Uh, could someone untie me?
Uh,
people ..... Okay, a joke's a joke but this is going a little far, don't
you
think? Uh .... Hey, will someone please untie me? But he was alone and
no
one heard the comment .....
arms wrap around Ray's neck from behind, and lips gently brush his ear.
"untie you, Ray? but just when you're getting comfortable?"
-cb
ps. we liked the story.
-
Naw, I'm not really comfortable yet ... still have too many clothes on <g>
I'm happy you liked the story though.
Ray
From: celia batau
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 16:23:47 -0700
hi Ray.
"Ray" <ray1031@cac.net> wrote in message
news:nsRU8.104$fp.8896@newsfeed.slurp.net ...
Naw, I'm not really comfortable yet ... still have too many clothes on <g>
taking the single edge razor from her purse, celia slices off the dark blue
pullover, exposing the beautifully unscarred skin beneath. then moving
lower, she works at his jeans, taking special care around the zipper area.
no underwear Ray? naughty boy.
celia then pulls the remaining strips of fabric from Ray's bindings and
carefully looks him over. dark hair mussed and slightly longer than he
usually keeps it. wide strong shoulders. a nice chest with just enough hair
to cover the glow of perspiration rising from his skin. strong legs. feet a
little scuffed. and Ray's little prince. everything there waiting for her.
the small wooden table squeals as she drags it from the back of the room and
sets it a short distance from the prisoner. on it are a set of knives,
plastic clothes pins, pliers, a few heavy sticks, and a spool of flexible
wire. Taking the wire, she uses it to reinforce Ray's bindings, twisting and
snipping of the ends with the pliers. celia then steps out of view and
returns a few moments later with two shallow pans of water which she sets
beneath his feet. she's also brought another coil of wire and she dips the
ends in the pans and unrolls the rest out of Ray's sight.
she lets Ray sit for a moment before returning to the table. she chooses the
carving knife. she holds it close enough so that Ray can make it out clearly
in the harsh spotlights. then she sets it across his lap.
"always wanted my own toy." celia breathes. Ray's eyes widen a bit as she
leans forward. palms against his chest. hands sliding downward letting the
fingers curl slightly to lightly scratch his skin. soft kiss on his
forehead. nose then trailing down along the side of his face and across his
cheek until she can stare him directly in the eyes.
"more comfortable? we can play if i'd like. or you could give me Conjugate's
number." :)
-cb
celia batau's story site: http://www.myplanet.net/pinataheart/stories.htm.
Beautiful people
living on a beautiful star
Sweet people
on a beautiful star from far away
Please remember
me sometime
-Pizzicato Five
From: Ray
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 01:07:52 -0400
"celia batau" <pinataheart@bigplanet.com> wrote in message
news:1025825051.795687@news3.bigplanet.com ...
hi Ray.
"Ray" <ray1031@cac.net> wrote in message
news:nsRU8.104$fp.8896@newsfeed.slurp.net ...
Naw, I'm not really comfortable yet ... still have too many clothes on
<g>
taking the single edge razor from her purse, celia slices off the dark
blue
pullover, exposing the beautifully unscarred skin beneath. then moving
lower, she works at his jeans, taking special care around the zipper area.
no underwear Ray? naughty boy.
celia then pulls the remaining strips of fabric from Ray's bindings and
carefully looks him over. dark hair mussed and slightly longer than he
usually keeps it. wide strong shoulders. a nice chest with just enough
hair
to cover the glow of perspiration rising from his skin. strong legs. feet
a
little scuffed. and Ray's little prince. everything there waiting for her.
the small wooden table squeals as she drags it from the back of the room
and
sets it a short distance from the prisoner. on it are a set of knives,
plastic clothes pins, pliers, a few heavy sticks, and a spool of flexible
wire. Taking the wire, she uses it to reinforce Ray's bindings, twisting
and
snipping of the ends with the pliers. celia then steps out of view and
returns a few moments later with two shallow pans of water which she sets
beneath his feet. she's also brought another coil of wire and she dips the
ends in the pans and unrolls the rest out of Ray's sight.
she lets Ray sit for a moment before returning to the table. she chooses
the
carving knife. she holds it close enough so that Ray can make it out
clearly
in the harsh spotlights. then she sets it across his lap.
"always wanted my own toy." celia breathes. Ray's eyes widen a bit as she
leans forward. palms against his chest. hands sliding downward letting the
fingers curl slightly to lightly scratch his skin. soft kiss on his
forehead. nose then trailing down along the side of his face and across
his
cheek until she can stare him directly in the eyes.
"more comfortable? we can play if i'd like. or you could give me
Conjugate's
number." :)
Enjoying the feeling of Celia's sharp nails as they slid across his chest He
was still quite nervous and sweating over her choice of 'toys' on the table
....
Beginning to chant, he recited repeatedly: "Conjugate's number one ....
Conjugate's number one ... Conjugate's number one .... "
Ray
From: Conjugate
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 14:13:15 -0400
Oh, I don't know about that ...
"Ray" <ray1031@cac.net> wrote in message
news:sO9V8.1$mI.258@newsfeed.slurp.net ...
"celia batau" <pinataheart@bigplanet.com> wrote in message
news:1025825051.795687@news3.bigplanet.com ...
hi Ray.
"always wanted my own toy." celia breathes. Ray's eyes widen a bit as
she
leans forward. palms against his chest. hands sliding downward letting
the
fingers curl slightly to lightly scratch his skin. soft kiss on his
forehead. nose then trailing down along the side of his face and across
his
cheek until she can stare him directly in the eyes.
"more comfortable? we can play if i'd like. or you could give me
Conjugate's
number." :)
Enjoying the feeling of Celia's sharp nails as they slid across his chest
He
was still quite nervous and sweating over her choice of 'toys' on the
table
....
Beginning to chant, he recited repeatedly: "Conjugate's number one ....
Conjugate's number one ... Conjugate's number one .... "
Ray
It sounds more to me like my number's almost UP. :-) Enjoy celia's
attentions; I won't try to, er, "cut in," since she's taking care of that
herself, it sounds like. :-)
Conjugate
not keen on cutting-edge humor.
From: Uther Pendragon
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: 15 Jul 2002 01:30:08 -0600
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
The Fish Tank - My Aqua View (Voy, MF Cons, No Sex)
By ray1031@cac.net
1) 2 positive comments
1) I loved the triple parallel.
2) The flirting of the married couple was both suggestive and believable
to have occured in (semi) public.
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
1) Fix up the biology.
The pet shop owner, Celia, had said he had one of only 10
that had been imported into the US, so far. A completely new
genus of Angel fish. The first newly identified member of
the species in a hundred years. A Desdmona. He'd looked it
I know nothing about angel fish, but a species is smaller than a
genus. If there is a new genus of angel fish, then angel fish is
not a species. Also, the only way to get more of that breed is
to have a male and a female of that breed. Whether the breed is
a genus or a subspecies.
2) One of my pet peeves.
Pami Mathews, his Journalism teacher and a student-
substitute named Maria who taught English Common Skills for
six weeks. At the height of puberty he'd had many a fantasy
about both women.
He might just have had many a fantasy about both women together.
But I will lay a bet that you intended to write that he had many
a fantasy about each woman.
From: Ray
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:44:06 -0400
"Uther Pendragon" <anon584c@nyx.net> wrote in message
news:1026718206.910323@irys.nyx.net ...
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
The Fish Tank - My Aqua View (Voy, MF Cons, No Sex)
By ray1031@cac.net
1) 2 positive comments
1) I loved the triple parallel.
2) The flirting of the married couple was both suggestive and believable
to have occured in (semi) public.
I'm glad you enjoyed both of the above .... I did want something that would
establish an almost circular pattern of love surrounding him, a late spring
type of atmosphere. I was also looking for more of a suggestive feel rather
than blatant.
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
1) Fix up the biology.
The pet shop owner, Celia, had said he had one of only 10
that had been imported into the US, so far. A completely new
genus of Angel fish. The first newly identified member of
the species in a hundred years. A Desdmona. He'd looked it
I know nothing about angel fish, but a species is smaller than a
genus. If there is a new genus of angel fish, then angel fish is
not a species. Also, the only way to get more of that breed is
to have a male and a female of that breed. Whether the breed is
a genus or a subspecies.
Here you may well be right (probably are) I am not really a fish person, and
I was relying on three sites pertaining to 'tropical' angel fish for my
information. I 'did' take a liberty - considering the Anniversary and 'who'
the story was for. As with the other species populating this planet,
tropical fish tend to hold their brightest colors and identifiers in the
male of the species. In the story, the "Desdmona" should actually be the
male, and the other three the females. (but I took a liberty ... good call
Uther.)
2) One of my pet peeves.
Pami Mathews, his Journalism teacher and a student-
substitute named Maria who taught English Common Skills for
six weeks. At the height of puberty he'd had many a fantasy
about both women.
He might just have had many a fantasy about both women together.
But I will lay a bet that you intended to write that he had many
a fantasy about each woman.
Here is the old saw of language splits in usage and adapted definitions
again. Another of the small changes in true English and that "bastardized"
American language that only resembles the true mother tongue. <g> In the
dictionary I checked, 'both' defines as "the two" or "the two together" ....
probably another example of definitions changes within the 'American'
language due to usage changes.
Youo are quite correct though, as - since you bring it up - I do remember a
discussion about it by an English teacher in the past (back when leather was
a real material and not a plastic substitute). Since this is an
international forum and to avoid undue confusion I will make the recommended
change.
Thanks for the comments and I'm glad you have mostly seemed to enjoy the
story.
From: dennyw
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:13:37 -0700
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:44:06 -0400, "Ray" <ray1031@cac.net> held
forth, saying:
Uther:
2) One of my pet peeves.
Pami Mathews, his Journalism teacher and a student-
substitute named Maria who taught English Common Skills for
six weeks. At the height of puberty he'd had many a fantasy
about both women.
He might just have had many a fantasy about both women together.
But I will lay a bet that you intended to write that he had many
a fantasy about each woman.
Here is the old saw of language splits in usage and adapted definitions
again. Another of the small changes in true English and that "bastardized"
American language that only resembles the true mother tongue. <g> In the
dictionary I checked, 'both' defines as "the two" or "the two together" ....
probably another example of definitions changes within the 'American'
language due to usage changes.
Yes. 'both' does mean either 'the two' or 'the two together' - which
is exactly Uther's point. <g>
I'd probably suggest you rewrite that sentence roughly, 'At the height
of his puberty, those women were in many of his fantasies.'
Or, ' ..., they were his prime fantasy material.'
(let the reader decide if it was each, or together. whatever floats
the reader's boat. <g>)
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it."
- G.B. Shaw
From: dennyw
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:07:37 -0700
On 15 Jul 2002 01:30:08 -0600, Uther Pendragon <anon584c@nyx.net> held
forth, saying:
2) One of my pet peeves.
Pami Mathews, his Journalism teacher and a student-
substitute named Maria who taught English Common Skills for
six weeks. At the height of puberty he'd had many a fantasy
about both women.
He might just have had many a fantasy about both women together.
But I will lay a bet that you intended to write that he had many
a fantasy about each woman.
Well, I want to know the Journalism teacher's name. We have a list of
three here: Pami, the journalism teacher and ... Maria.
I suspect that Ray meant only two women, thus:
Pami Mathews, his Journalism teacher, and ....
- that second comma defines 'his Journalism teacher' as adjectival
referring to 'Pami Mathews.' W/o the 2nd comma, the phrase is
nominative.
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it."
- G.B. Shaw
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From: Souvie
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:20:11 -0400
On Mon, 24 Jun 2002 16:10:50 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
Positive: I like how the narrator's attention wanders. Very realistic and reminds me a lot of myself. lol My middle name should have been "scatterbrained."
Positive: The lazy, relaxed feel of the story. No rushing about, no pressure anywhere, just a lazy Sunday type of story. <g>
Negative: A couple of words capitalized that I don't think should be capitalized.
Negative: Maybe a tad too much information about the neighbors. We still would have had a good picture of them without going overboard on the background.
- Souvie (first in line for a change)
From: Frank McCoy
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 20:06:06 -0500
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
Liked the lazy feeling of the story.
Felt like summer at it's best.
Either the fish-tank was overdone, or the view of the neighbors was. The story should have focused more on one or the other.
(/ / ((/|/ / </ <
From: Iconoclast
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 04:30:59 GMT
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote in
news:uhev91b3hgu3ee@news.supernews.com:
A mood story, pure and simple. Not usually my cuppa, but it can be very effective as a part of some larger work. Seeing that this is entire of itself, I will critique it on that basis.
The narration all builds to the last paragraph, without foreshadowing the ending. But after one has finished the ending seems obvious. Nice work.
As a mood piece all of the parts hang together. Fish, birds, couple next door, all display the juice of comingling and romance. The mood feels like Saturday,and the voyeurism is all cases feels interested but not overdone. I can feel this character, and empathise.
As a final comment on the good things, this piece reminded me very much of a poem I read about a million years ago (late sixties) called, I believe "Frogs". This was written by a man who was also an elderly (at the time I thought he was elderly - he was probably about fifty, a mere youngster) and a college professor. His poem was about watching a young couple of undergrads in love on the campus. I probably haven't thought about that in thirty years, so this story was very evocative for me.
Quibbles. Ah, there are always some, lest we believe we walk on water.
The names. Now I know that Desdmona was a required character. But, Celia, Conard (Conrad?) and Alexis Jordan were just too self- referential for me. I have read some very "in" science fiction stories with names taken from Fandom, and it just slows the flow for me. I don't usually consider names important, but when they hit you in the face like this it kinda detracts from the flow of the story.
A criticism of the story not in and of itself but only where it appeared: ASSD. Where Conard and Alexis were engaging in sunscreen foreplay I expected more sex, despite the nosex tag. But here was also a MF tag. Perhaps this should be renoved. Not imprtant, but an expectation nonetheless.
As I said, would be fine for me as part of a larger story.
Iconoclast
From: Mat Twassel
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: 26 Jun 2002 17:08:17 GMT
The events you've picked for this story are fine as is the overall structure. I really like the entities and the movement between them: mating fish, nesting cardinals, sexy neighbors. I also like the main character observing all this. I might have picked a slightly different outcome, but your conclusion, at least the idea of it, is more than adequate.
What is not adequate is your mechanics. You need to examine every sentence for clarity. There are many mistakes, some of them humorous; for example:
Still, mating or not, he enjoyed relaxing and watching his fish swimming within his custom built tank.
You need to examine every paragraph for flow. I don't mind that the narrator's attention drifts, and I like much of the tangential detail, but I think the story doesn't move well enough.
Consider this section:
Ivan decided on one last cup of coffee and another twenty minutes appreciating his fish before getting started, rising to fetch another cup.
As Ivan was returning to his chair, he looked in the Fish Tank for the Desdmona and didn't see her at first. He had to shift in his seat to find her and when he did, she was behind a few taller plants with one of the male Angels. They were swimming in tight circles above one of the broad leafed plants he'd put in. 'Ah, maybe,' he thought, before being distracted by a sight beyond the tank, outside the window. <
Recast the sentences to improve the flow. For example:
Ivan decided he'd allow himself twenty more minutes to appreciate his fish. Those chores could wait that long. He strode into the kitchen for a fresh cup of coffee, and when he returned less than a minute later, full coffee cup in hand, Desdmona was missing. Anxiously, Ivan peered through the glass. Nothing but placcid water and desultory bubbles and two of the males hovering motionless in front of the little wheelbarrow. Ivan moved to the side of the tank. Ah, there she was, that little cutie, nearly hidden behind some tall, broadleafed plants. And there, too, was the third male. He was swimming around and around Desdmona in smooth, ever-tightening circles. This was getting good. Ivan leaned closer, his face almost pressing against the glass. Desdmona wiggled. Ivan's coffee sloshed. Some of it spilled onto his pants. "Damn," Ivan said, brushing at the wet spot. Guiltily he glanced away from the fish tank. Something was going on outside his window.
- Mat Twassel
Mat's Erotic Calendar at http://calendar.atEros.com
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:00:20 -0500
On Mon, 24 Jun 2002 16:10:50 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
This is a story about voyeurism, and to me the whole thing is all about observations. Ivan observes his neighbors, his fish, and maybe everything else around him. If the intent of the tale is to illustrate this by emphasizing observations, it does it well.
Fishy love, birdie love, and human love, Ivan sees a lot of love all around. The ending sets all that off nicely.
I think that some of the paragraphs could be tightened up, or split. Assuming you want to keep all the detail in, some of it needs to be cut up into bite size pieces.
Ivan is observing many things, but not himself very much. When he watches Con and Alex, I'd think he'd notice a reaction to his observations. While we could imagine our own, in this case it might be nice to see what he is thinking at that moment.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Always Horny
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 10:37:43 +0200
positive: The author can write; he can write at will; he can write lazily; He can write about nothing and do it right, at length.
Negative: He does it. At length.
Or more specifically, this is a story that gave me a feel of "exposition". Someone describes what's going on, but in a way that does not draw into the story. I was never drawn in. Like I attended an uninteresting lecture, or like I was waiting for the introductory exposition paragraph to finish and for the story to start. Maybe more feelings could fix that? Maybe a less "professoral" tone? (don't know why it feels "professoral", tho. The tenses, maybe?)
Positive: There's a feel of "good descriptions" through the writing that impresses me. Even through the parts I dislike for professoral feeling or for ass-licking (see below) or for whatever, the descriptive part shows through and forces my respect. Choice of words that are just exact, just right quantity of adjectives, something like that.
Negative: the use of ASSDer names. Not only does it feel clique-ish and childish (last I did it myself I was 12yo), but it also feels horribly cheapo. It's subjective, but it makes me feels like the author is using this as a device for getting an audience on the cheap. That he's bribing some strokes out of the group. Knowing him a little, I'll grant that he prolly did not mean it that bad, that it was just the mutual admiration society spilling over. But still, there's a definite opportunity for vast improvement right here.
Oh yeah, one last thing: it would prolly help if the end wasn't telephoned so many miles ahead. Seriously, who did not see it coming from the first third of the story? IMO it detracts from the enjoyment.
FWIW
AH
A_H_01 at hotmail. com
From: Alexis Siefert
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: 27 Jun 2002 21:37:45 GMT
Made it in, just under the wire. Didn't think I would <g> I wrote a nice, long commentary, then went back and read the other comments. As it often happens, I got dinged for not replying earlier-all of my suggestions had already been taken, so it was back to the drafting board.
First off, I can attest that finding a creative, non-schmaltzy way to include the 'required' elements of a fish tank and a character named Desdmona isn't easy. It's a wonderful writing exercise, and I thank Ray both for suggesting it, and for providing a good example for the rest of us to follow. It turns out that "Desdmona" is a wonderful name for a fish species. It's feminine, it's 'pretty', and, after spending some time recently in the pet store (replacing some deceased fish of my own), I can attest that it's better than a lot of species names out there <g> And, of course it would be an angel fish. What else would it be? Not a fighting beta, not a guppy. An Angel fish. Nice touch. Very sweet.
And the description of the Desdmona! My goodness, Ray… you've basically described her as a vagina without actually using the word <g> (with the exception of the blue, of course). An overall pink blush, red lips…pretty much just screams sex. Don't misunderstand me - this is a good thing.
I know there have been some comments about the character names. Personally, I think that they work just fine <g>. Seriously, I don't know if the non-assd reader would find the character names at all unusual. They're probably a bit jarring for the assd regulars-unless you're expecting a story based on ASSD, it's not often that you actually see names like Celia (hi, celia!).
Unfortunately, "Alexis" tends to be a rather popular porn name (darn my parents and their lack of foresight), so there is, perhaps, a bit of an expectation created in the reader's mind. What Ray does at one point is shorten it to 'Alex,' (which is also what I personally tend to do). 'Alex' is more sedate and less graphic. It seems to be more acceptable and proper than 'Alexis' is.
This brings be right back to the comment I made above. "Desdmona" isn't a name that one runs across on a daily (or weekly, or monthly) basis. It would have been very easy to ruin the reality of the story by calling someone Desdmona for no apparent reason. Yes, parents come up with very odd names with which to saddle their children (no, don't ask. I'm NOT telling you what "Alexis" is short for), but 'Desdmona' is odd enough so as to be unbelievable.
Good job here, Ray.
Okay, I mentioned expectations above. Yes, the story is coded (no-sex), but I think that the way Ray's written the massage oil scene between Con and Alex is a bit of a cheat. It leaves an unfinished feeling. IMHO, the touching, massaging, kissing, nipping, etc., is close enough to sex as to almost 'require' more. Either more description of the massage or more actual action. As it is, it feels cut short.
Ray's done a very good job of catching the feel of internal narration. He flits from subject to subject-like our own thoughts do when we're observing the things around us. From the fish to the neighbors to the fish to the neighbors to the birds to the fish, etc…it's restless and disjointed, but the narrator is unsettled, unhappy, and the jumpy scene changing gives us that feeling almost from the beginning.
One possible suggestion - Mat mentions that there are some flow problems within the paragraphs. I tried reading it out loud and I have to agree. One thing that might help is to try rewriting it from Ivan's POV instead of from as an omnipotent narrator. It's a very personal story. Voyeurism is observation, and technically the omnipotent narrator POV is valid here, I think it detaches the reader from the story.
Overall, I did enjoy this one. I like the different take on Spring Fever. I like the 'love is all around and basically it stinks' view. There are some mechanical problems that can easily be corrected with a careful proofreading and some sentence restructuring. Mat covered that issue pretty thoroughly, so I won't spend anymore time on it. You've got a great feel for the visual descriptions and the observations.
Alexis
"The difference between girls' soccer and boys' soccer? We make it look good."
ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/Alexis_S/ http://www.asstr.org/~Alexis_S/ And, of course, The Web's Best Illustrated Adult Fiction is at http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: PleaseCain
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: 27 Jun 2002 23:22:45 GMT
Romance is in the air, and I like it. This is a sweet, life-affirming vignette, just what you wanted it to be, so mission accomplished. I also like the fish-owner's shop talk, which aids characterization and fulfills that mandate some writers swear to, where you teach or introduce the reader to something new with every outing.
The punctuation should be edited for desired effect, particularly a few of the commas, and more so the phrases and word-choices, where you use several words to convey what a thoughtful, pungent verb could accomplish by itself (I particularly noticed the lackadaisical word "moved"). I'm not sure about that last sentence, either: combined with his earlier carping about his lovelife, that last sentence strikes a discordant tone compared to the rest of the piece. It struck me as a tad too pitiful.
Thanks for sharing another of your stories!
Cain
From: Alexis Siefert
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: 27 Jun 2002 23:41:12 GMT
I'm going to try this again. My first response never showed up on my server (and it usually only takes a minute, at most), and I don't see it at google. So, forgive me if this is a repeat.
Made it in, just under the wire. Didn't think I would <g> I wrote a nice, long commentary, then went back and read the other comments. As it often happens, I got dinged for not replying earlier-all of my suggestions had already been taken, so it was back to the drafting board.
First off, I can attest that finding a creative, non-schmaltzy way to include the 'required' elements of a fish tank and a character named Desdmona isn't easy. It's a wonderful writing exercise, and I thank Ray both for suggesting it, and for providing a good example for the rest of us to follow. It turns out that "Desdmona" is a wonderful name for a fish species. It's feminine, it's 'pretty', and, after spending some time recently in the pet store (replacing some deceased fish of my own), I can attest that it's better than a lot of species names out there <g> And, of course it would be an angel fish. What else would it be? Not a fighting beta, not a guppy. An Angel fish. Nice touch. Very sweet.
And the description of the Desdmona! My goodness, Ray… you've basically described her as a vagina without actually using the word <g> (with the exception of the blue, of course). An overall pink blush, red lips…pretty much just screams sex. Don't misunderstand me - this is a good thing.
I know there have been some comments about the character names. Personally, I think that they work just fine <g>. Seriously, I don't know if the non-assd reader would find the character names at all unusual. They're probably a bit jarring for the assd regulars-unless you're expecting a story based on ASSD, it's not often that you actually see names like Celia (hi, celia!).
Unfortunately, "Alexis" tends to be a rather popular porn name (darn my parents and their lack of foresight), so there is, perhaps, a bit of an expectation created in the reader's mind. What Ray does at one point is shorten it to 'Alex,' (which is also what I personally tend to do). 'Alex' is more sedate and less graphic. It seems to be more acceptable and proper than 'Alexis' is.
This brings be right back to the comment I made above. "Desdmona" isn't a name that one runs across on a daily (or weekly, or monthly) basis. It would have been very easy to ruin the reality of the story by calling someone Desdmona for no apparent reason. Yes, parents come up with very odd names with which to saddle their children (no, don't ask. I'm NOT telling you what "Alexis" is short for), but 'Desdmona' is odd enough so as to be unbelievable.
Good job here, Ray.
Okay, I mentioned expectations above. Yes, the story is coded (no-sex), but I think that the way Ray's written the massage oil scene between Con and Alex is a bit of a cheat. It leaves an unfinished feeling. IMHO, the touching, massaging, kissing, nipping, etc., is close enough to sex as to almost 'require' more. Either more description of the massage or more actual action. As it is, it feels cut short.
Ray's done a very good job of catching the feel of internal narration. He flits from subject to subject-like our own thoughts do when we're observing the things around us. From the fish to the neighbors to the fish to the neighbors to the birds to the fish, etc…it's restless and disjointed, but the narrator is unsettled, unhappy, and the jumpy scene changing gives us that feeling almost from the beginning.
One possible suggestion - Mat mentions that there are some flow problems within the paragraphs. I tried reading it out loud and I have to agree. One thing that might help is to try rewriting it from Ivan's POV instead of as an omnipotent narrator. It's a very personal story. Voyeurism is observation, and although technically the omnipotent narrator POV is valid here, I think it detaches the reader from the story. I'd like it to be more personal.
Overall, I did enjoy this one. I like the different take on Spring Fever. I like the 'love is all around and basically it stinks' view. There are some mechanical problems that can easily be corrected with a careful proofreading and some sentence restructuring. Mat covered that issue pretty thoroughly, so I won't spend anymore time on it. You've got a great feel for the visual descriptions and the observations.
Alexis
"The difference between girls' soccer and boys' soccer? We make it look good."
ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/Alexis_S/ http://www.asstr.org/~Alexis_S/ And, of course, The Web's Best Illustrated Adult Fiction is at http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: Desdmona
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 09:53:15 -0400
Ray~
This story is bittersweet, isn't it? Love is all around and yet, there is no love for Ivan. If you hadn't handled it so well, there could have been a danger of him sounding pathetic. Instead, it feels more like a slice of time, out of his life for us to glimpse. Only the partial story, just like the neighbors, the birds, the fish. I like that parallel. And because Ivan finds joy in his observations, rather than sheer melancholy, it gives us hope for his future.
An angelfish, huh? I have to take a moment and bask in that description. I hope you don't mind if I even preen at the idea of being thought of as, "one of a kind."
OK, back to the job at hand.
I agree with Alexis, choosing Desdmona as a name for a breed of fish was very creative, and it allows for using the name without seeming forced.
I think the problem with using familiar people in a story automatically causes us, as readers, to mentally compare the authors perceptions, with our own. For instance, I'm sure there are those who definitely don't think of Desdmona as one of a kind, and I actually stopped mid-story and wondered about Celia being a pet store owner. I also stopped and wondered, does Alexis really have big boobs? So, these things take us out of the story. They're fun, and in this forum, they work. But generally speaking, I don't think it's a good idea to take the reader out of the story too much, interrupting the flow and all that.
That's actually a repeat, so I'll forge ahead.
I would suggest rewording any phrase or sentence that includes, seemed to, looked as if, began - doing anything. They're kind of wishy-washy. They're easy to use, especially in voyeurism stories. You can't be sure of every action as a bystander, but you can be fairly certain of what you see.
For example, "His arms moved vigorously then as his hands seemed to move up and down, side to side and in large circles beneath her."
If you tell the reader how the arms are moving vigorously, then the reader will be able to easily interpret what the hands are doing.
And in this example, "Ivan decided that he'd been lazy long enough and began rising to begin his chores."
Began rising to begin his chores is pretty awkward.
The other suggestion I have comes at the end of the story. You've just done a great job of describing an idyllic spring scene, all around. Ivan obviously has enjoyed it, so it seems too quick a jump from idyllic scene to awful allergies, bird drippings etc. Maybe some incident could spur him to these next thoughts, he sneezes, or he actually sees the bird drippings on the car. Just some small thing to make the transition a little smoother.
I've enjoyed reading this very much. Creative, poignant, and fun. Thanks Ray for your part in adding to the FishTank.
Des
From: Father Ignatius
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 17:13:04 +0200
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote in message news:uhoqrmp787b7a4@news.supernews.com ...
[ ...]
That's a very good question. What's the answer?
Nat
"Father Ignatius" <Father Ignatius at ANTISPAMananzi dot co dot za> http://www.asstr.org/~FatherIgnatius/Stories.html The Web's Best Illustrated Adult Fiction is at http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
"Only a woman can describe the sensations within a Greek sandwich." Van Falmouth
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 11:13:02 -0500
On Sat, 29 Jun 2002 17:13:04 +0200, "Father Ignatius" <FatherIgnatius@ANTISPAMananzi.co.za> wrote:
Does it matter?
The important thing is, does she feel comfortable running topless or naked? How else can you enjoy nude jogging; it isn't really nude if her sports bra covers the good things and she can't go without it ;-)
OTOH, they can make decorative targets in nude paintball or watergun games, because they move in interesting ways. The only other thing quite so flexible is the targets between a guy's legs.
Does it matter if those things are big or not?
It does make it easier to spot them while clothed, though. I figure that as a way of compensation, if you aren't so well-endowed you should make up for it by showing them off more. That way, everyone will realize that your smaller size doesn't mean you don't have something worth playing with. Or tasting. Or, well, whatever you are into.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Ray
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 13:08:08 -0400
My Reviewers,
I'm sorry about the delay in responding. I've just spent three days reformatting and rebuilding my hard drive. But, enough excuses ...
Strapped to the small chair in the center of the room I was trying to see beyond the glare of the rooms single lamp. This was impossible though as it was adjusted to shine directly into my eyes and obscure the identities of my questioners. I think there were ten shadowy forms gathered in the darkness beyond the lamp's glare.
The first comments and demands rolled out of the darkness, followed by others in rapid-fire succession allowing me no time for comment. It wasn't until each of the darker blobs in the darkness had made comment that I was allowed the opportunity to speak. It was a demanded response then, as a thick black rubber hose suddenly slapped against the chair between my slightly parted thighs.
I was properly intimidated and began speaking quickly:
Thank you all for your comments, critiques, criticisms and compliments about the story in question.
Repeated comments include:
Let me get to this .... Thanks to Souvie and everyone for mentioning that I had acheived that lazy Saturday morning feeling .... it's a major part of what I wanted from this story. A man trying to relax and unwind on a Saturday morning before begining his 'work' around the house.
Thank you for the comments about creatively using the name Desdmona .... it was the thought of Desdmona as an "angel" fish swimming around in her "tank" that the story was built around. Everything else was fluff and asides to ultimately support this, distract from this, and eventually set the mood before drawing the story back to it's central theme.
I thank everyone for your 'positive' comments concerning my descriptive writing abilities. Especially when they praise my choices in the three primary charcater groups and (according to AH) my skills in getting my points across - regardless. I also thank everyone for their more negative comments about the sentence structuring and less obtuse viewpoints .... This was - ultimately - one of those stories where I built a mental picture of what I wanted to say, typed out those things in the basic order and feel that I wanted, then ran into a wall trying to reach the story 'flow' that I'd hoped for.
Reading, rereading and rewriting certain points multiple times and in various ways simply did not help this time. So far, in my submissions to ASS I have really used only two people for editing work on my stories. Our World-Class Curmudgeon and sometimes editor <g> and the person for who's efforts this story was to praise. Denny was buried in ROM fest stories at the time, and this was all about Des, so I was left to my own devices and my head simply wouldn't work properly .... I will be reworking the sentence structuring though and improving the flow. It 'will' go through one or both of my editors before seeing the light of day again.
There were comments from many of you cancerning the use of fellow Author's names. Maybe it was a mistake and caused pauses in the read, but I have to admit two things here: 1 - I have been fascinated with the idea since reading my first Fantasy Train story and seen my first 'Fest/Anniversary' parody story. 2 - I've wanted to test myself and see if I could handle such a use without completely falling on my face and the Anniv story seemed the most logical place for it. I used "Conard" because it is a name, no matter how rare, whereas "Conjugate" isn't, really. It was the recent 'play' between Conjugate and Alexis on ASSD that paired them for this story. Celia became a pet shop owner because animals and pets can often have calming and normalizing effects for multiples (not for all of course and I don't know how our Celia feels about animals). Finally, of course, Ivan was used as the principle character because of his efforts in helping Desdmona to establish and support the Fish Tank (I thought he could use recognition as well).
Alexis .... I'd love to accept credit for the Vaginal colors and imagery ... but I was really thinking along the lines of blusher, lipstick and eyeshadow ..... been looking closely have we? <G>
Souvie .... I may have gone a little over the top on the neighbor's descriptions .... not sure I did, but I'll look at it closely. So far, your middle names are Sexy, Saucy and Scatterbrained .... long name you got. <g>
Frank .... You say I should have focused more on one scene more than the others in the story and here I do disagree with you. I was trying for a bit of a balance in the story with almost equal time to all three aspect of the story. As Souvie mentioned, perhaps I included too much description of the neighbors themselves, but I do believe that part of the mood for this story is the equality of effort to all three included scenes.
Mat .... As I mentioned, I ran into a mental block when it came to further refinements of the sentence structuring .... I will be working on it .... thanks for the pointer. The ending, though, will stand. I may add a sentence as Des suggested, in setup before getting there though.
AH ..... Careful, my hat is in danger of no longer fitting on my head. I am a scribbler and story-teller, not a writer. I lack certain skills that would be necessary for that appellation. Thanks for the compliment though. I think your other comments were covered above.
Jeff .... I may include a single comment or two about Ivan's reactions to his observations, but no more than that. My original 'take' is that he isn't about reacting, only relaxing. He is focusing outwards only in an effort to let go of the tensions he has built within himself during the preceeding week.
Iconoclast .... Yes, this could be a good introduction to a much larger story .... especially if his neighbors were constantly inviting him to parties as an excuse to 'set him up' with their current idea of a perfect partner. <g> I'm glad that the story prompted such a memory for you ... don't think I ever saw the poem Frogs. Glad you mostly seemed to enjoy the experience.
Cain ... The character was not intended to appear pitiful in any form. Wistful maybe, melancholy maybe, but not pitiful. That was part of my original reason for not including Ivan's own thoughts, to avoid that possibility. Bittersweet and a touch of sadness is okay, but .... I'll look very carefully at that. Thanks.
Desdmona .... I thought you might enjoy being an Angel Fish ... <g> Even if they are one of the more cannibalistic of the tropical fish. As I mentioned, I was aware of the pausing I would cause people in using some of the names from our group, but it was something I had wanted to 'try', once. I will most likely not do so again unless I actually do write a Fantasy Train story.
As for comments on Alexis' purported lush endowments by nature .... My only real comment somewhat echoes Jeff's .... It really does not matter. There have been many asides posted to ASSD since I arrived concerning their mammoth nature, their mystic levitation capabilities and their protective nature (A comment was once made of Alexis walking into a wall and her nose didn't touch it <g>). Such comments have not been denied by and have occassionally been semi-supported by our Alexis. So, her size has, in some ways, become a simply accepted fact and was used by me as such. Outside of that, there is no relevant purpose in idle speculation ..... I mean, she's not going to list her measurements for us, so who really cares?
Again, I thank you one and all for your comments and pointers about my little story. I'm glad that reading it mostly seemed a pleasant experience. Now, if one of you would kindly untie me from this chair .....
Hey, wait .... where are you all going? Uh, could someone untie me? Uh, people ..... Okay, a joke's a joke but this is going a little far, don't you think? Uh .... Hey, will someone please untie me? But he was alone and no one heard the comment .....
Ray
From: celia batau
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:54:37 -0700
hi Ray.
"Ray" <ray1031@cac.net> wrote in message news:Q9GU8.2772$6d.123862@newsfeed.slurp.net ...
arms wrap around Ray's neck from behind, and lips gently brush his ear.
"untie you, Ray? but just when you're getting comfortable?"
-cb
ps. we liked the story.
celia batau's story site: http://www.myplanet.net/pinataheart/stories.htm.
Beautiful people
living on a beautiful star
Sweet people
on a beautiful star from far away
Please remember
me sometime.
-Pizzicato Five
From: Ray
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 01:58:56 -0400
"celia batau" <pinataheart@bigplanet.com> wrote in message news:1025762453.247843@news2.bigplanet.com ...
Naw, I'm not really comfortable yet ... still have too many clothes on <g>
I'm happy you liked the story though.
Ray
From: celia batau
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 16:23:47 -0700
hi Ray.
"Ray" <ray1031@cac.net> wrote in message news:nsRU8.104$fp.8896@newsfeed.slurp.net ...
taking the single edge razor from her purse, celia slices off the dark blue pullover, exposing the beautifully unscarred skin beneath. then moving lower, she works at his jeans, taking special care around the zipper area. no underwear Ray? naughty boy.
celia then pulls the remaining strips of fabric from Ray's bindings and carefully looks him over. dark hair mussed and slightly longer than he usually keeps it. wide strong shoulders. a nice chest with just enough hair to cover the glow of perspiration rising from his skin. strong legs. feet a little scuffed. and Ray's little prince. everything there waiting for her.
the small wooden table squeals as she drags it from the back of the room and sets it a short distance from the prisoner. on it are a set of knives, plastic clothes pins, pliers, a few heavy sticks, and a spool of flexible wire. Taking the wire, she uses it to reinforce Ray's bindings, twisting and snipping of the ends with the pliers. celia then steps out of view and returns a few moments later with two shallow pans of water which she sets beneath his feet. she's also brought another coil of wire and she dips the ends in the pans and unrolls the rest out of Ray's sight.
she lets Ray sit for a moment before returning to the table. she chooses the carving knife. she holds it close enough so that Ray can make it out clearly in the harsh spotlights. then she sets it across his lap.
"always wanted my own toy." celia breathes. Ray's eyes widen a bit as she leans forward. palms against his chest. hands sliding downward letting the fingers curl slightly to lightly scratch his skin. soft kiss on his forehead. nose then trailing down along the side of his face and across his cheek until she can stare him directly in the eyes.
"more comfortable? we can play if i'd like. or you could give me Conjugate's number." :)
-cb
celia batau's story site: http://www.myplanet.net/pinataheart/stories.htm.
Beautiful people
living on a beautiful star
Sweet people
on a beautiful star from far away
Please remember
me sometime
-Pizzicato Five
From: Ray
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 01:07:52 -0400
"celia batau" <pinataheart@bigplanet.com> wrote in message news:1025825051.795687@news3.bigplanet.com ...
Enjoying the feeling of Celia's sharp nails as they slid across his chest He was still quite nervous and sweating over her choice of 'toys' on the table ....
Beginning to chant, he recited repeatedly: "Conjugate's number one .... Conjugate's number one ... Conjugate's number one .... "
Ray
From: Conjugate
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 14:13:15 -0400
Oh, I don't know about that ...
"Ray" <ray1031@cac.net> wrote in message news:sO9V8.1$mI.258@newsfeed.slurp.net ...
It sounds more to me like my number's almost UP. :-) Enjoy celia's attentions; I won't try to, er, "cut in," since she's taking care of that herself, it sounds like. :-)
Conjugate
not keen on cutting-edge humor.
From: Uther Pendragon
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: 15 Jul 2002 01:30:08 -0600
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
1) I loved the triple parallel.
2) The flirting of the married couple was both suggestive and believable to have occured in (semi) public.
1) Fix up the biology.
I know nothing about angel fish, but a species is smaller than a genus. If there is a new genus of angel fish, then angel fish is not a species. Also, the only way to get more of that breed is to have a male and a female of that breed. Whether the breed is a genus or a subspecies.
2) One of my pet peeves.
He might just have had many a fantasy about both women together. But I will lay a bet that you intended to write that he had many a fantasy about each woman.
Uther Pendragon FAQs http://www.nyx.net/~anon584c anon584c@nyx.net fiqshn http://www.asstr.org/~Uther_Pendragon
From: Ray
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:44:06 -0400
"Uther Pendragon" <anon584c@nyx.net> wrote in message news:1026718206.910323@irys.nyx.net ...
I'm glad you enjoyed both of the above .... I did want something that would establish an almost circular pattern of love surrounding him, a late spring type of atmosphere. I was also looking for more of a suggestive feel rather than blatant.
Here you may well be right (probably are) I am not really a fish person, and I was relying on three sites pertaining to 'tropical' angel fish for my information. I 'did' take a liberty - considering the Anniversary and 'who' the story was for. As with the other species populating this planet, tropical fish tend to hold their brightest colors and identifiers in the male of the species. In the story, the "Desdmona" should actually be the male, and the other three the females. (but I took a liberty ... good call Uther.)
Here is the old saw of language splits in usage and adapted definitions again. Another of the small changes in true English and that "bastardized" American language that only resembles the true mother tongue. <g> In the dictionary I checked, 'both' defines as "the two" or "the two together" .... probably another example of definitions changes within the 'American' language due to usage changes.
Youo are quite correct though, as - since you bring it up - I do remember a discussion about it by an English teacher in the past (back when leather was a real material and not a plastic substitute). Since this is an international forum and to avoid undue confusion I will make the recommended change.
Thanks for the comments and I'm glad you have mostly seemed to enjoy the story.
Ray
From: dennyw
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:13:37 -0700
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:44:06 -0400, "Ray" <ray1031@cac.net> held forth, saying:
Uther:
Yes. 'both' does mean either 'the two' or 'the two together' - which is exactly Uther's point. <g>
I'd probably suggest you rewrite that sentence roughly, 'At the height of his puberty, those women were in many of his fantasies.' Or, ' ..., they were his prime fantasy material.' (let the reader decide if it was each, or together. whatever floats the reader's boat. <g>)
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it." - G.B. Shaw
From: dennyw
Re: The Fish Tank - My Aqua View, by Ray
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:07:37 -0700
On 15 Jul 2002 01:30:08 -0600, Uther Pendragon <anon584c@nyx.net> held forth, saying:
Well, I want to know the Journalism teacher's name. We have a list of three here: Pami, the journalism teacher and ... Maria.
I suspect that Ray meant only two women, thus: Pami Mathews, his Journalism teacher, and .... - that second comma defines 'his Journalism teacher' as adjectival referring to 'Pami Mathews.' W/o the 2nd comma, the phrase is nominative.
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it." - G.B. Shaw
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