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From: dennyw
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 12:15:42 -0700
On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:18:45 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> held
forth, saying:
The second offering for this week is a contribution to the Anniversary. It's
a complete story by Jim Butterfield. It's 2,539 words in length.
splort! kitten!
KEYBOARD!
I haven't the time to look for stuff to improve. I'm too busy holding
my sides.
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it."
- G.B. Shaw
From: Bradley Stoke
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: 2 Jul 2002 11:00:11 -0700
Jim
I guess I've got to take the story as it's meant, which is as humour that
somehow works around "Fish Tank" and "Desdemona" themes. And on that level
it's quite funny, although a little unsubtle. But then Laurel & Hardy are
unsubtle. And so are Beavis & Butthead,
I like all the references to things in (I guess) Dungeons & Dragons. My
knowledge of all that kind of stuff is limited to the odd computer game
(where I'm usually defeated on a very early level). I guess all these keys
and mysteries and clues and all that kind of stuff come from there. When I'm
not stuck in some room in Tomb Raider or being mashed by monsters in Quake
or Half Life, I've sometimes found the odd red flask, crystal ball or green
key. So it was a good evocation of all that nonsense. Though it is such
absolute bollocks I wonder if it's even worth the effort of satirising. On
the other hand, it's a wide target and the goalie's pretty inept.
I like the 'F' and 'D' theme. 'F' for 'Fish Tank' of course. But also
'flatulence', 'flirting', 'fashion' and 'female'. (And skirted around
'fuck'). Though I missed the 'Frob' in 'Frobozz' joke. And 'D'. Good old
'Desdmona'. But not so many rude or cheeky words begin with 'D'. 'Damsel',
'diverting', 'drizzle' and 'disentangle' perhaps.
More of a problem is the language (criticism #1). It's a Bill & Ted like mix
of cod Shakespeare and "Hey Dude. Where's my car?" I wasn't sure how
excellent it was. No way was it that awesome. But I guess it may well be a
satire on the sort of person who plays the sort of computer games or RPG
that this is based on. You can imagine some acne-ridden Californian boy
(always Californian!) in his poster-strewn bedroom, hunched over a pizza-
and coke-stained keyboard saying "Like Dude", "Sweet!", "How Gay!" or
whatever, with some weak and ineffectual rock music from the likes of Limp
BizKit or Marilyn Manson banging on tediously in the background. Yeah. Good
image! But I didn't like it.
My other criticism is the main protagonist. Perhaps when all the women you
see are enormous breasted avatars or downloaded videos of similarly
improbable bodies pumping up and down like an oscillator, then you would be
a bit lost for words if you met a glorious princess (even one with similarly
impoverished language skills to your own and not at all loath to jump into
bed with you as soon as the final curtain comes down). Again, it may be a
joke on the world of gamers, dudes and the socially inept, but it grated
with me.
All in all, a great effort. And I'm sure Desdmona is enjoying every moment
of it. Especially the 'puowpsep' bit. Which in my opinion is the crown jewel
of the entire short story.
From: Kelli Halliburton
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 18:04:20 GMT
"Bradley Stoke" <bradley_stoke@hushmail.com> wrote in message
news:aaacc8d6.0207021000.73f0f6c6@posting.google.com ...
All in all, a great effort. And I'm sure Desdmona is enjoying every moment
of it. Especially the 'puowpsep' bit. Which in my opinion is the crown
jewel
of the entire short story.
I was thinking that "euowpsap" looks a little more correct. (Turn your
monitor over to verify that the end of this sentence is umop ap!sdn. g)
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 18:59:01 -0600
On 2 Jul 2002 11:00:11 -0700, bradley_stoke@hushmail.com (Bradley
Stoke) wrote:
Jim
I guess I've got to take the story as it's meant, which is as humour that
somehow works around "Fish Tank" and "Desdemona" themes. And on that level
it's quite funny, although a little unsubtle. But then Laurel & Hardy are
unsubtle. And so are Beavis & Butthead,
I like all the references to things in (I guess) Dungeons & Dragons. My
knowledge of all that kind of stuff is limited to the odd computer game
(where I'm usually defeated on a very early level). I guess all these keys
and mysteries and clues and all that kind of stuff come from there. When I'm
not stuck in some room in Tomb Raider or being mashed by monsters in Quake
or Half Life, I've sometimes found the odd red flask, crystal ball or green
key. So it was a good evocation of all that nonsense. Though it is such
absolute bollocks I wonder if it's even worth the effort of satirising. On
the other hand, it's a wide target and the goalie's pretty inept.
It is "Zork." One of the classic games, goes back over 20 years to
its original form (much taken from one called simply "Adventure"). As
the game is all text, it is different from the highly visual games of
the 90s. But it is worth playing anyway, because the imagery comes
from imagination. Just like in written stories vs. movies.
The language of the story is much like that from the original game
(and in parts, as mentioned, is exactly from it).
Like any satirical or farcial sorts of comedy, if you don't know the
original it can be harder maybe to appreciate the humor? I can't say,
as I kind of grew up on this sort of thing.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/
For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 17:00:58 -0600
On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:18:45 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
Oh, this is hard not to repeat on. As a Zork fan, I can't help but
appreciate the humor. It seems just about perfect a take on the whole
thing, pushing things into a bit of innuendo (but not much more than
some of the series and other fantasy RPG games) nicely.
As such, a kind of farce (but not much, because the game really was
a lot like this story, as you know), it isn't fair to look at it like
a more general sort of fiction. It isn't even quite a "fanfic" story.
Since it does the whole story-adventure w/humor feel so well, I can't
think of much else to say about it. Other than ROFL ;-))
As for improvements, there isn't much to do other than cleaning up.
I thought of a few other 'D' words that might be suitable, but
the Princess broke in. "We can take care of that right now!"
she exclaimed. She drew forth the wand and waved it in the
direction of the Wizard. As it began to glow with a faint blue
glow, she spoke the word "Female!" Wizard and wand both began
to throb with pulses of power. The Wizard started to change
form, softening and rounding. "Whee!" he/she shouted, and
danced off out of sight.
A nice sort of ending. But I think that the he/she thing should be
like "he shouted ... er, make that she shouted, as he, er, she danced
off out of sight."
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/
For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Souvie
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 05:37:45 GMT
On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:18:45 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
The second offering for this week is a contribution to the Anniversary. It's
a complete story by Jim Butterfield. It's 2,539 words in length.
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
Positive: Finding a unique way to work in the "fish tank" and
"Desdmona" elements. Very inventive.
Positive: Pretty much grammar and punctuation free, as far as I saw.
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
Improvement: I've never played the game Zork, so I was a bit lost as
to the room descriptions, and the other elements from the game. I had
the urge to skim over them, rather than read them, but I
refrained ...barely.
From: Always Horny
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 08:27:51 +0200
Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess)
[rom] [humour] [zork] [nosex]
By Jim Butterfield fjb@pathcom.com
Very cute story.
The medieval words are pretty tough for a non-native speaker, though. One who
doesn't know zork, to boot.
Not much in the way of suggestions for improvement.
Oh yes: "She coaxed", I don't like too much. Could be me though.
And maybe the last sentence about Flagpole should be by him, not by her.
(somehow it's less ladylike than my idea of her. LOL)
AH
A_H_01 at hotmail. com
From: base212assm
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 12:07:12 GMT
Souvie wrote:
On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:18:45 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
Positive: Pretty much grammar and punctuation free, as far as I saw.
Personally, I like grammar and punctuation. Writng a story "free" of
both is difficult to read. 8^)
From: dennyw
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 14:24:57 -0700
On Wed, 03 Jul 2002 12:07:12 GMT, base212assm
<base212assmENDSPAM@yahoo.com> held forth, saying:
Souvie wrote:
On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:18:45 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
Positive: Pretty much grammar and punctuation free, as far as I saw.
Personally, I like grammar and punctuation. Writng a story "free" of
both is difficult to read. 8^)
Beat me to it. <g>
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it."
- G.B. Shaw
From: PleaseCain
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: 04 Jul 2002 02:02:30 GMT
There is a lot I like here, especially all the comedy bits. His interior
monologue as he attempts conversation with her. The embedded lizard's head.
The repartee was my favorite aspect of the story, witty and crisp. I also like
the shtick about rummaging through his pockets to find objects and stray
animals. You have a good imagination.
What ruined it for me were all the inside jokes and references, obviously
relating to the game Zork II. Maybe I didn't read carefully enough either, but
why the need to find certain stones? Why is it important that her sandals
remained dry? And why are the guy and girl hanging out together in the first
place? All loose ends.
Further, the Wizard is a vague character, especially when he turns out to be
Desdmona. You might flesh him out a bit more, and plant some earlier seed that
he has wacky crossdressing proclivities. As it is, his role is too disjointed
to be interesting: he pops up and establishes a mystery by uttering one word,
and then he reappears at the end to solve his own mystery.
That said, I will definitely read more of your writing, because I'm convinced
you can set up a pretty lively story.
Cain
From: Ray
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 10:02:00 -0400
I've waited long enough I have to 'piggy-back' to post my response:
First, let me mention your game 'recommendation' - I do agree that the Zork
trilogy was an excellent play. I have played most of the infocom games at
one time or another. You should have, however, included mention of the fact
that Zork and the other Infocom games of the time were 'text-only'
adventures, with only minimal/if any graphics. Playing these games required
thought, puzzle solving and an ability to 'type' rather than simply moving
a joystcik and reacting to what is on the screen.
As I've said above, I have played most of the Infocom text RPG's and have
three of the five 'collection' sets they recently released. Like Jeff, I
immediately recognized the wit and style of the game, though you did miss
one bet from those old games.
All movement in those games was based on compass directions: North, South,
East, West, North West, South East, etc. but that's just the the
semi-purist, semi-silly side of me. Also, rather than the jacket, wasn't the
carry-all a 'bottomless pocket' in the early games? The Jacket came later -
after the first trilogy. Of course, it can be more fun looking for things in
a jacket, especially if 'she' helps <g>
I enjoyed the 'feel' of the language from the game and could appreciate the
limitation on the Wizard of Froboz and his spells. (Being limited to only
using spells beginning with the letter "F" - the fact that Fish Tank also
begins with F being a rather 'neat' coincidence.)
I found the revisitation with the odd humor and memories of the strange
requirements of the game in solving problems refreshing.
The one basic improvement I'd suggest is an echo of other's comments. The
read would be easier for most with punctuation included. Beyond that ....
the Princess could be a bit more amorous - hardly able to keep her hands
from her nervous 'adventurer/heroe'. <g>
Pardon me, I think I'm going to fire up my old 486 laptop and dig out my
copy of Enchanter for a while. <g>
Ray
Now I go to culture classes every night ....
I'm a devotee and connoisseur of Black Velveteen Art ....
I have a painting of Rambo that glows in the dark .
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: 04 Jul 2002 14:32:32 GMT
I'm not familiar with Zork, although I have played a few of those text
adventure games - some of them on a VIC20. Brings back memories good and bad.
Anyway, I was able to read the story with ease, and I'm easily confused, so I
think that shows you have real writing skill. I enjoyed the light tone. I got
the sense of the banter and it was fun even if I felt I was missing references
here and there.
My major disappointment to the story: it didn't quite build to anything. I
didn't feel a lot of tension, and the eventual resolution was a bit of a
let-down. Maybe that just means I missed the essential key to the piece or the
puzzle. Maybe it fits the nature of these games. What I wanted was to be so
swept up in the story that I lost sight of everything else. That threatened to
happen, but it never quite did. The characters, fun though they were, never
fully materialized. Maybe I'm asking too much.
- Mat Twassel
Mat's Erotic Calendar at http://calendar.atEros.com
From: Alexis Siefert
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: 05 Jul 2002 05:17:48 GMT
First, let me say that I really did enjoy this one. It was a great laugh. As
far as the FT anniversary "requirements" went, I think you did a wonderful job
of making them part of the story. They don't stand out as being contrived or
awkward (no small task).
Now, I don't understand Zork. It's a fiction that I'm not familiar with, so I
assume that there are a lot of 'in' jokes that I'm missing. Despite that, you
wrote it well enough to give me a good feel for the characters. Your hero has
an "aw shucks" quality that makes him endearing. But, it's a bit overdone.
For instance - you use "gosh" three times. Twice in internal dialogue. Once
is enough, three times comes across as contrived.
My other comments are a bit nitpicky. It's "Damn it" (not Damnit). I don't
know if it's an American thing, but "chocolated ants" doesn't sit right to me.
Chocolate ants (ants made of chocolate), or chocolate-covered ants (real ants
dipped in chocolate).
"Side saddle, of course" - why "of course"? If it goes without saying that
she's riding side saddle because in this fiction no woman (or this woman) would
ever ride not side saddle, then leave out the parenthetical reference
completely. If it's special or unique that she'd be riding side saddle, then
leave out the 'of course.'
that this is the fiftieth anniversary of his tenure as a wizard - awkward,
simplify. "…this is his fiftieth year as a wizard, and he…"
There. Enough nitpicking.
Very funny story. The "f" spells are clever, and the jacket is a riot (I'm
wondering if, perhaps, he has my car keys in there somewhere).
Thanks for the story!
Alexis.
ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/Alexis_S/
http://www.asstr.org/~Alexis_S/
And, of course, The Web's Best Illustrated Adult Fiction is at
http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 00:40:38 -0600
On 04 Jul 2002 02:02:30 GMT, pleasecain@aol.com (PleaseCain) wrote:
There is a lot I like here, especially all the comedy bits. His interior
monologue as he attempts conversation with her. The embedded lizard's head.
The repartee was my favorite aspect of the story, witty and crisp. I also like
the shtick about rummaging through his pockets to find objects and stray
animals. You have a good imagination.
What ruined it for me were all the inside jokes and references, obviously
relating to the game Zork II. Maybe I didn't read carefully enough either, but
why the need to find certain stones? Why is it important that her sandals
remained dry? And why are the guy and girl hanging out together in the first
place? All loose ends.
You know the whole problem with doing a parody/imitation of any
sort, of course. The loose ends were inherent in the game. You
always have more mysteries to contend with, uncertainties to deal
with. Why has much less to do with things than figuring out what to
do.
Further, the Wizard is a vague character, especially when he turns out to be
Desdmona. You might flesh him out a bit more, and plant some earlier seed that
he has wacky crossdressing proclivities. As it is, his role is too disjointed
to be interesting: he pops up and establishes a mystery by uttering one word,
and then he reappears at the end to solve his own mystery.
I think he'd kind of stuck being like that, if the story keeps true
to its source.
That said, I will definitely read more of your writing, because I'm convinced
you can set up a pretty lively story.
Something not a parody might be easier to catch. Like fanfic, often
those not into the source don't get much of the humor. Nor can you
easily explain it to the uninitiated.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/
For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Desdmona
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 13:08:50 -0400
Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess)
[rom] [humour] [zork] [nosex]
By Jim Butterfield fjb@pathcom.com
Jim~
I don't read, play or anything Zork. Bur darn it, now I want to. I loved
this. I giggled through the entire thing. The "F's" were inspired. The
adventurer's jacket just a hoot. Reminding me of my purse. And I loved the
transgendered wizard. Maybe the wizard part could have had a better
foundation, a little better transition, but still it was a gem.
Your sense of humor is terrific, poking through in every paragraph. I was
won over by it. I do think there are parts that are bit overdone, and might
make me groan on another read.
And I think you miss a perfect opportunity to have a sex scene in this.
And one thing else, was the jacket put back on? I thought he had already
taken it off when it says: "I took the jacket off, and began to explore down
the left sleeve."
I don't know how to thank you for adding to the Anniversary such a
light-hearted and creative addition. It was great fun!
Desdmona
From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:16 GMT
Thanks to all those who had comments.
I attempted to post an "omnibus" reply, covering all comments, twice
.. but I suspect that my server doesn't like big postings. So I'll
post individual responses instead. (If the original posts show up,
please excuse ... sheesh, Desdmona did say 'no repeats'! :-)
- Jim
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From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:17 GMT
===-denny- (curmudgeon) said, in part:
splort!
Assuming this is a positive response ... thanks, Denny. :-)
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From: dennyw
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 11:37:52 -0700
On Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:17 GMT, fjb@pathcom.com (Jim Butterfield)
held forth, saying:
===-denny- (curmudgeon) said, in part:
splort!
Assuming this is a positive response ... thanks, Denny. :-)
good assumption. Was laughing my fool head off.
(and being glad you didn't go into the maze of twisty little passages,
all alike - but then, that's not Zork.)
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it."
- G.B. Shaw
From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:19 GMT
Bradley Stoke didn't exactly follow the guidelines of "things to
improve",
but said, among other things:
... on that level it's quite funny, although a little unsubtle.
Damn! I took out the custard-pie-in-the-face scene, and you still
don't think it's subtle? Groan.
I like the 'F' and 'D' theme. 'F' for 'Fish Tank' of course.
But also 'flatulence', 'flirting', 'fashion' and 'female'.
(And skirted around 'fuck').
Darn! Missed that one!
The F-spell theme was from the original story. Another reason why I
chose it.
Though I missed the 'Frob' in 'Frobozz' joke. And 'D'. Good old
'Desdmona'. But not so many rude or cheeky words begin with 'D'
'Damsel', 'diverting', 'drizzle' and 'disentangle' perhaps.
The wizard's name was The Wizard of Frobozz. I haven't the foggiest
idea what or where Frobozz is, either. Just kept it 'cause it was his
name.
More of a problem is the language (criticism #1). It's a Bill & Ted like
mix of cod Shakespeare and "Hey Dude. Where's my car?" I wasn't sure how
excellent it was. No way was it that awesome.
A specific example would be more useful. The story's protagonist
isn't the brightest light in the marquee; I wouldn't want him to be
too cool.
My other criticism is the main protagonist. Perhaps when all the women you
see are enormous breasted avatars or downloaded videos of similarly
improbable bodies pumping up and down like an oscillator, then you would be
a bit lost for words if you met a glorious princess (even one with similarly
impoverished language skills to your own and not at all loath to jump into
bed with you as soon as the final curtain comes down). Again, it may be a
joke on the world of gamers, dudes and the socially inept, but it grated
with me.
The socially inept will always be with us. I suspect many of us can
identify with characters who say the wrong thing at the wrong time.
Not me, of course (I say the right thing at the wrong time).
Thanks, Bradley.
- Jim
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From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:20 GMT
Kelli Halliburton commented:
I was thinking that "euowpsap" looks a little more correct.
I told the guy in Properties to give me a hand-printed sign on the
pink
Slip. I told him, hand-printed. If he'd done it right, the letter 'a'
at the end of 'desdmona' would look like, well, a circle with a
vertical line at the right. Upside down, it wouldn't look like much,
but a little squinting would make it look like a poorly-formed 'b' or
'p' - I chose the latter.
But the guy has a new computer, and just HAD to do it in Times New
Roman on his printer. Of course, that meant that you would see an
upside-down 'a' resembling an 'e'. I'm gonna have a serious talk with
him, Kelli; and I'll make sure that the story specifies hand-printed.
Let him inkjet his way around THAT one.
(Turn your monitor
over to verify that the end of this sentence is umop ap!sdn. g)
Kelli, you've solved a problem that's been bugging me for years.
I always wondered why, when I move the mouse to the left, the screen
pointer moves right, and there's a similar reversal of the up and down
directions. What's more, it has puzzled me that the cord comes out of
the bottom of my mouse, rather than the top.
Now that I've turned my monitor upside down, everything works right.
:-)
Thanks, Kelli.
- Jim
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From: dennyw
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 11:39:00 -0700
On Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:20 GMT, fjb@pathcom.com (Jim Butterfield)
held forth, saying:
Of course, that meant that you would see an
upside-down 'a' resembling an 'e'.
The schwa
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it."
- G.B. Shaw
From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:21 GMT
Jeff Zephyr has been to Zork, which pleases me and I suspect enhances
his enjoyment of my tale. He said:
... As
the game is all text, it is different from the highly visual games of
the 90s. But it is worth playing anyway, because the imagery comes
from imagination. Just like in written stories vs. movies.
It seemed to me that this sort of thing would be ideal for readers of
an all-text newsgroup. Some of us would rather see words than
pictures. Imagination can be so much more graphic than a JPEG. And,
as a bonus, the quality of writing is generally excellent in all the
Infocom games.
Like any satirical or farcial sorts of comedy, if you don't know the
original it can be harder maybe to appreciate the humor?
Think we might be able to lure a few new Adventurers with this one,
Jeff? As I keep saying, it's a free download.
===(More from Jeff later) ...
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From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:22 GMT
From: "Ray", who is the prime mover of the Fishtank Anniversary
Tribute:
First, let me mention your game 'recommendation' - I do agree that the Zork
trilogy was an excellent play. I have played most of the infocom games at
one time or another. You should have, however, included mention of the fact
that Zork and the other Infocom games of the time were 'text-only'
adventures, with only minimal/if any graphics. Playing these games required
thought, puzzle solving and an ability to 'type' rather than simply moving
a joystick and reacting to what is on the screen.
I had already put lots of preliminary stuff in square brackets at the
start of the piece. I was reluctant to stretch it out any more. It
would be tempting to keep going with ... [All characters in this story
are fictitious; any resemblance between them and the real Desdmona are
almost purely coincidental] ... [No baby sea monsters were harmed
during the writing of this story; the sea monster was played by a
professional under the supervision of the SPCSM] ... and so on. But I
have wonderful self-restraint, particularly when picking up the check
at a restaurant, so I left it as is.
All movement in those games was based on compass directions:
North, South,East, West, North West, South East, etc. but that's just
the semi-purist, semi-silly side of me.
It seemed to me that compass points might encumber the story. The
geography was tiny enough that, in this case, nobody would need to
draw a map. Ummm .. and I think that ENTER would get you through that
first door, leaving only two further movements in the story (to the
workbench where the west direction is mentioned, and then on to the
fishtank).
Also, rather than the jacket, wasn't the
carry-all a 'bottomless pocket' in the early games?
As far as I could see, there was no description as to how the player
carried all that stuff. The jacket added a little more schtick to the
story.
By the way: You and Jeff left that jacket in pretty ratty condition
after you'd been Zorking. The lining was ripped in a couple of
places, and some of the stuffing was coming out. And which one of you
left a polka-dot condom in one of the pockets?
I asked for a fresh jacket, but was told, no, not with my budget, I'd
just have to make do with the one that was there. :-)
I enjoyed the 'feel' of the language from the game and could appreciate the
limitation on the Wizard of Froboz and his spells. (Being limited to only
using spells beginning with the letter "F" - the fact that Fish Tank also
begins with F being a rather 'neat' coincidence.)
Yes, it's part of why I chose that Zork environment.
The one basic improvement I'd suggest is an echo of other's comments. The
read would be easier for most with punctuation included.
Examples would be useful. I'm not sure what you mean.
Beyond that ....
the Princess could be a bit more amorous - hardly able to keep her hands
from her nervous 'adventurer/heroe'. <g>
In your dreams, Ray. :-) So you couldn't make progress with her when
you played Zork? And now you want me to soften her up, huh? I asked
the Princess about your visit, but she just smiled. I did notice,
though, that right after I asked, she lifted her hand to touch her
hair. Do you think that means anything?
:-)
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From: Ray
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:30:05 -0400
"Jim Butterfield" <fjb@pathcom.com> wrote in message
news:3d29bbc7.78984454@news.pathcom.com ...
From: "Ray", who is the prime mover of the Fishtank Anniversary
Tribute:
But I
have wonderful self-restraint, particularly when picking up the check
at a restaurant, so I left it as is.
Well, that explains the recent bill I got received from the FroBozz Fancy
Fish Fry and Eatery ...
By the way: You and Jeff left that jacket in pretty ratty condition
after you'd been Zorking. The lining was ripped in a couple of
places, and some of the stuffing was coming out. And which one of you
left a polka-dot condom in one of the pockets?
Hey, when they only have 'one' jacket to begin with and are too cheap to
replace it ....
I hope it was at least 'clean' - I did pay the standard post adventure dry
cleaning fee they demand in the normal Zork adventurers contract.
As for the condom ... I offered the Princess a choice of five varieties ...
the Polka-Dot, Ribbed, Studded, Extra-Lubed and Glow-in-the-Dark ... I
didn't know she stuck it into that pocket when we were done.
I asked for a fresh jacket, but was told, no, not with my budget, I'd
just have to make do with the one that was there. :-)
As I already indicated ... the Cheap Bas***** only have 'one' jacket in
their inventory to start with. You think it's bad now ... wait until it's
used by another dozen or so adventurers. :^}
Beyond that ....
the Princess could be a bit more amorous - hardly able to keep her hands
from her nervous 'adventurer/heroe'. <g>
In your dreams, Ray. :-) So you couldn't make progress with her when
you played Zork? And now you want me to soften her up, huh? I asked
the Princess about your visit, but she just smiled. I did notice,
though, that right after I asked, she lifted her hand to touch her
hair. Do you think that means anything?
She's remembering the last session .... we used the Wizards workbench and
she got her hair stuck in some spilled goop near the tables edge .... She
was still trying to get unstuck when I left .... her language was quite
colorful when I offered to 'trim' her long locks to free her. :^}
Did she use that Vic Tanny membership I left her, or was her ass still
cottage cheese?
Ray
From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:24 GMT
Back to Jeff Zephyr for a moment:
Since it does the whole story-adventure w/humor feel so well, I can't
think of much else to say about it. Other than ROFL ;-))
I hoped some readers would get a nostalgia-kick out of it. Glad you
enjoyed it.
... "Whee!" he/she shouted, and
danced off out of sight.
A nice sort of ending. But I think that the he/she thing should be
like "he shouted ... er, make that she shouted, as he, er, she danced
off out of sight."
Excellent! He/she is never a good phrase, but sometimes the
alternatives turn out to be clumsy. In this case, however, we EXPECT
the narrator to be a little clumsy with words ... your suggestion is
accepted verbatim.
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
One of my four cats would agree. The other three are, "Gimme the
food, then leave me alone!"
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From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:30 GMT
===Souvie contributed:
Positive: Pretty much grammar and punctuation free, as far as I saw.
Back in the 1940s and 50s, some businesses had an odd tradition,
Souvie. Typists were required to make ONE error in business
correspondence, so that the signer could hand-correct the error, thus
supposedly giving the letter a personal touch. (Honest!)
Do you think maybe it would be a good idea for me to slip in a single
mispelling, to keep readers on their toes? :-)
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
Improvement: I've never played the game Zork, so I was a bit lost as
to the room descriptions, and the other elements from the game. I had
the urge to skim over them, rather than read them, but I
refrained ...barely.
I tried my best to make the story complete in itself, without calling
on the reader to know the "inside scoop". The room descriptions are
taken verbatim from the game.
I trust that most people spotted that the main thrust of the story was
the interaction between characters; that's something that wasn't in
the original Zork. Hope the setting didn't obstruct in any way.
Thanks for your comments, Souvie.
- Jim
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From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:42 GMT
==="Always Horny" had these words:
The medieval words are pretty tough for a non-native speaker, though. One who
doesn't know zork, to boot.
Most of the words that puzzled you are likely 'nonsense' words, coined
to give the story an other-worldly feeling. (Words like 'Frobozz' or
'Frobnoid'.) Readers well-versed in English would know right away that
they had no meaning. In your case, though, I suspect that you imagined
that they were real, obscure, words. Sorry you were misled.
Oh yes: "She coaxed", I don't like too much. Could be me though.
Not sure. Would you prefer, "she said in a coaxing voice" .. ?
And maybe the last sentence about Flagpole should be by him, not by her.
(somehow it's less ladylike than my idea of her. LOL)
Hmmm. And Ray wants her more aggressive. Sigh. The guy's a klutz,
shy and inept at dealing with females. The Princess has to take the
initiative or she'll NEVER get anything going, IMO ... :-)
- Jim
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From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:59 GMT
PleaseCain said:
What ruined it for me were all the inside jokes and references, obviously
relating to the game Zork II. Maybe I didn't read carefully enough either, but
why the need to find certain stones? Why is it important that
her sandals remained dry? And why are the guy and girl hanging out
together in the first place? All loose ends.
"Ruined it"? Hope you didn't really mean a word that strong.
"Spoiled it", perhaps, or "Took the edge off"? That's part of the
hazard of writing an episode to fit within a previously-defined
environment.
I don't know if it will help for me to tell you this, but persons
playing the original Zork don't know what's going on, either. The
game has no stated objective, and the player only develops the
situation by wandering around and finding interesting things to do.
At the part of the game I adapted, the player is undoubtedly wondering
why the hell he's carrying around a couple of coloured spheres. He
will only figure it out when he sees, for the first time, the three
stands with corresponding colours. At that point, a new challenge
arises: where is the missing sphere? (In that respect, my story is a
spoiler, since I reveal its location).
Why is it important that her sandals remained dry? A character
contrast; the Princess could walk through a carwash without getting a
hair out of place; the narrator couldn't drink a cup of coffee without
spilling half of it over himself. Her sandals are dry, his boots are
filled with water. She trips lightly back to the workshop; he sloshes
his way there.
Why are the guy and girl hanging out together in the first place?
There's a reference early in the story. Before my action started, he
had somehow saved her from captivity. She indicates that she has
reappeared to see if she can be of any help. Then again, perhaps she
has other motives.
Further, the Wizard is a vague character, especially when he turns out to
be Desdmona. You might flesh him out a bit more, and plant some earlier
seed that he has wacky crossdressing proclivities.
The story had an earlier reference to the Wizard being fey, and to his
"Facial" and "Fashion" spells. These might be seen as a little
foreshadowing. In the original Zork, the Wizard plays a minor nuisance
role; I didn't want to take him too far out of that character.
As it is, his role is too disjointed to be interesting:
he pops up and establishes a mystery by uttering one word,
and then he reappears at the end to solve his own mystery.
As you know, he is discussed at the start of the story. I think we
have to recognize that we're not into heavy drama here. Indeed, the
only mysteries, such as they are, would be: what does 'desdmona'
signify within this story; and where is the missing crystal sphere?
Neither of these build to an appreciable climax, so I think we'll have
to recognize the story as a piece of fluff; that's the way I intended
it.
That said, I will definitely read more of your writing, because I'm convinced
you can set up a pretty lively story.
Kind words, Cain. It may be a while, since the Muse doesn't strike me
very often (but she has a mean left hook when she does).
- Jim
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From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:40:25 GMT
Jeff leaped to my defence with:
You know the whole problem with doing a parody/imitation of any
sort, of course ...
(About the Wizard's character .. )
I think he's kind of stuck being like that, if the story keeps true
to its source.
Right, Jeff. I tried to make it readable to those who had not met
Zork, without seriously compromising the splendid flow of the original
game.
- Jim
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From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:41:01 GMT
Desdmona wrapped things up with:
... I do think there are parts that are bit overdone, and might
make me groan on another read.
Sometimes, humour can be pitched too subtly, so that some readers
don't get it. Well, that's one problem I don't have. I fretted that
my first draft was too mild, and spent some time beefing up the comedy
theme. Ever get that fear that someone will read the whole thing with
a sombre face, and never realize it's supposed to be funny?
And I think you miss a perfect opportunity to have a sex scene in this.
Well, it's implied. I fear I might not handle the scene well, or
(worse) start to lose the comedy aspect. Of course, sex can be funny
(all my female friends scream with laughter when I disrobe), and it
might have been possible to handle it in a light manner.
And I didn't want to follow the couple into the wizard's quarters. As
it happens, the place is heavily stocked with leather, chains, whips
and other paraphernalia, and it might have spoiled your image of the
Princess if I'd taken you there.
And one thing else, was the jacket put back on? I thought he had already
taken it off when it says: "I took the jacket off, and began to explore down
the left sleeve."
I should have followed that up more fully. In fact, his wristwatch
got tangled in the left sleeve lining, and the jacket more or less
trailed along behind him for the rest of the story. As a result, our
hero looked something like a contortionist when searching for the
other items in the jacket. The Princess found this quite interesting,
since she'd been reading the Karma Sutra for the last month or so.
I don't know how to thank you for adding to the Anniversary such a
light-hearted and creative addition. It was great fun!
It's intended as a tribute to you, Desdmona, for your excellent work
in organizing the fishtank. I rarely do stories or feedback, but when
Ray said, "Let's mark the anniversary!" I just couldn't resist.
Enjoy.
- Jim
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From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:58:40 GMT
mat twassel contributed:
My major disappointment to the story: it didn't quite build to anything. I > didn't feel a lot of tension, and the eventual resolution was a bit of a > let-down.
As noted earlier, that's right. The two mystery themes were easily
solved, and it didn't build to any sort of climax.
Maybe I'm asking too much.
Maybe I'm giving too little. It's hard to say, Mat. I spent much of
my time punching up the humour, rather than reinforcing the plot line.
But I'm not strong on plots in any case.
Still, I wanted to make a contribution to recognize Desdmona's work
with the Fishtank. And it seems to work as a piece of fluff.
- Jim
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From: Uther Pendragon
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: 8 Jul 2002 13:03:50 -0600
Sorry for the lateness of these. OTOH, I think that you will believe
that I have been busy lately.
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
1) 2 positive comments
1 Despite the background, I could follow the story without any
previous acquaintance with the game of Zork.
2 We get good pictures of the personalities of the three
characters without stopping for an exposition.
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
Quibbles only,
1 I don't like: "There were rustling noises behind me. I
turned to see the beautiful young woman approach."
In the first place, you don't see THE woman the first time she is
mentioned in the story. In the second place, something is askew
with this order.
I'd prefer something similar to: "When I turned at a rustling
noise behind me, I recognized the beautiful young woman.
2 "At that time, her hair was unkempt and her gown was dirty
and bedraggled."
The story-present is told in past tense. So the story-past
should be told in past-perfect tense.
"At that time, her hair had been unkempt and her gown dirty
and bedraggled."
Or maybe:
"At that time, she had had unkempt hair and had worn a
dirty, bedraggled, gown."
Jeff Zephyr has been to Zork, which pleases me and I suspect enhances
his enjoyment of my tale. He said:
... As
the game is all text, it is different from the highly visual games of
the 90s. But it is worth playing anyway, because the imagery comes
from imagination. Just like in written stories vs. movies.
It seemed to me that this sort of thing would be ideal for readers of
an all-text newsgroup. Some of us would rather see words than
pictures. Imagination can be so much more graphic than a JPEG. And,
as a bonus, the quality of writing is generally excellent in all the
Infocom games.
I would think so. I'm not sure that I'd easily go back to that sort
of game. There is something about the sensual interaction of modern
game graphics, some games are just pretty and fun to experience
regardless of gameplay.
But I still read books. And stories. So maybe, it would be fun to
visit more gaming worlds which are all text. Some MUDs are like that,
a kind of online multiplayer text adventure.
Like any satirical or farcial sorts of comedy, if you don't know the
original it can be harder maybe to appreciate the humor?
Think we might be able to lure a few new Adventurers with this one,
Jeff? As I keep saying, it's a free download.
You never know. If not the originals, which being text still look
as good as ever, not really dated in the graphics like some older
games, some of the later ones.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/
For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 21:57:44 -0600
Since it does the whole story-adventure w/humor feel so well, I can't
think of much else to say about it. Other than ROFL ;-))
I hoped some readers would get a nostalgia-kick out of it. Glad you
enjoyed it.
It was simply fun. Sometimes it is nice to read a story like that.
Even if there was more of a sex scene, I think that the fun aspect
would tend to dominate the enjoyment.
... "Whee!" he/she shouted, and
danced off out of sight.
A nice sort of ending. But I think that the he/she thing should be
like "he shouted ... er, make that she shouted, as he, er, she danced
off out of sight."
Excellent! He/she is never a good phrase, but sometimes the
alternatives turn out to be clumsy. In this case, however, we EXPECT
the narrator to be a little clumsy with words ... your suggestion is
accepted verbatim.
Thanks. Most of it was pretty nice in the dialog, but that one
seemed out of place.
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
One of my four cats would agree. The other three are, "Gimme the
food, then leave me alone!"
Well, my sister's cat is sort of like that. But I've tended to pick
out the cats who crawl or jump or claw :-) their way onto your lap,
and insist on being petted often.
Sometimes, the petting is in trade for food. But once fed, they seem
to want a nice comfy petting spot.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/
For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Tesseract
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: 8 Jul 2002 22:26:00 -0700
fjb@pathcom.com (Jim Butterfield) wrote in message news:<3d29bcdb.79260590@news.pathcom.com> ...
===Souvie contributed:
Positive: Pretty much grammar and punctuation free, as far as I saw.
Back in the 1940s and 50s, some businesses had an odd tradition,
Souvie. Typists were required to make ONE error in business
correspondence, so that the signer could hand-correct the error, thus
supposedly giving the letter a personal touch. (Honest!)
Do you think maybe it would be a good idea for me to slip in a single
mispelling, to keep readers on their toes? :-)
RAH mentioned in "Stranger In A Strange Land" that he leaves the
errors in so that the editors can piss in it and make it their own (or
words to that effect).
Tesseract
From: dennyw
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 01:38:56 -0700
On 8 Jul 2002 22:26:00 -0700, hypertesseract@hotmail.com (Tesseract)
held forth, saying:
RAH mentioned in "Stranger In A Strange Land" that he leaves the
errors in so that the editors can piss in it and make it their own (or
words to that effect).
Well, actually, Jubal mentioned that - but I think this was a case of
'auctorial voice' for once. :)
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it."
- G.B. Shaw
From: Kelli Halliburton
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 01:28:14 GMT
<dennyw@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:r78liu4sjslhp6t8n2g8rjv2cd36l6f0of@4ax.com ...
On 8 Jul 2002 22:26:00 -0700, hypertesseract@hotmail.com (Tesseract)
held forth, saying:
RAH mentioned in "Stranger In A Strange Land" that he leaves the
errors in so that the editors can piss in it and make it their own (or
words to that effect).
Well, actually, Jubal mentioned that - but I think this was a case of
'auctorial voice' for once. :)
Hmm. It seems to me that there was a 'crusty old coot' in quite a few of
RAH's books. Jubal just happened to be closer to the mark than most, since
he was an author.
From: Tesseract
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: 10 Jul 2002 19:11:30 -0700
"Kelli Halliburton" <kelli217@crosswinds.not> wrote in message news:<O4MW8.585$d_1.37631144@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com> ...
<dennyw@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:r78liu4sjslhp6t8n2g8rjv2cd36l6f0of@4ax.com ...
On 8 Jul 2002 22:26:00 -0700, hypertesseract@hotmail.com (Tesseract)
held forth, saying:
RAH mentioned in "Stranger In A Strange Land" that he leaves the
errors in so that the editors can piss in it and make it their own (or
words to that effect).
Well, actually, Jubal mentioned that - but I think this was a case of
'auctorial voice' for once. :)
Hmm. It seems to me that there was a 'crusty old coot' in quite a few of
RAH's books. Jubal just happened to be closer to the mark than most, since
he was an author.
Crusty, old coot; not the lead character but more than a walk-on;
offers advice, often unasked for; does not suffer fools gladly; has
very libertarian views.
Tesseract
From: Tesseract
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: 9 Jul 2002 19:26:47 -0700
dennyw@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.invalid wrote in message news:<r78liu4sjslhp6t8n2g8rjv2cd36l6f0of@4ax.com> ...
On 8 Jul 2002 22:26:00 -0700, hypertesseract@hotmail.com (Tesseract)
held forth, saying:
RAH mentioned in "Stranger In A Strange Land" that he leaves the
errors in so that the editors can piss in it and make it their own (or
words to that effect).
Well, actually, Jubal mentioned that - but I think this was a case of
'auctorial voice' for once. :)
I've identified a character in most, if not all, of his adult stories
that I'm sure was himself, and was meant to be himself. Here it was
Jubal; in his last book was the father (I don't have the name handy).
Tesseract
From: dennyw
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:46:41 -0700
On 9 Jul 2002 19:26:47 -0700, hypertesseract@hotmail.com (Tesseract)
held forth, saying:
dennyw@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.invalid wrote in message news:<r78liu4sjslhp6t8n2g8rjv2cd36l6f0of@4ax.com> ...
On 8 Jul 2002 22:26:00 -0700, hypertesseract@hotmail.com (Tesseract)
held forth, saying:
RAH mentioned in "Stranger In A Strange Land" that he leaves the
errors in so that the editors can piss in it and make it their own (or
words to that effect).
Well, actually, Jubal mentioned that - but I think this was a case of
'auctorial voice' for once. :)
I've identified a character in most, if not all, of his adult stories
that I'm sure was himself, and was meant to be himself. Here it was
Jubal; in his last book was the father (I don't have the name handy).
Tesseract
This isn't really the forum for this discussion - but you'd get some
major argument if you made that statement in alt.fan.heinlein.
(the father was Ira Johnson, btw - assuming you mean Maureen's
dad - Lazarus's grandfather)
Oh - one of the people in afh who'd disagree with you posts under the
nym of "Astyanax12" - she's more widely known as Ginny Heinlein. :)
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it."
- G.B. Shaw
From: Kelli Halliburton
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 23:35:00 GMT
<dennyw@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:hdpniu000lv914e7hiv4pk0iip2d98vmu5@4ax.com ...
On 9 Jul 2002 19:26:47 -0700, hypertesseract@hotmail.com (Tesseract)
held forth, saying:
I've identified a character in most, if not all, of his adult stories
that I'm sure was himself, and was meant to be himself. Here it was
Jubal; in his last book was the father (I don't have the name handy).
This isn't really the forum for this discussion - but you'd get some
major argument if you made that statement in alt.fan.heinlein.
(the father was Ira Johnson, btw - assuming you mean Maureen's
dad - Lazarus's grandfather)
Oh - one of the people in afh who'd disagree with you posts under the
nym of "Astyanax12" - she's more widely known as Ginny Heinlein. :)
Se,, this is why when I said the same thing, I simply said "many," rather
than "most" or "all." There are indeed quite a few of his books in which
there is no analog to RAH himself.
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: 09 Jul 2002 12:40:49 GMT
Uther writes:
2 "At that time, her hair was unkempt and her gown was dirty
and bedraggled."
The story-present is told in past tense. So the story-past
should be told in past-perfect tense.
"At that time, her hair had been unkempt and her gown dirty
and bedraggled."
Is that right? I have my doubts. Consider:
At that time he was six.
At that time he had been six.
In past tense stories, past-perfect is useful for avoiding confusing, but when
confusion is not likely, I think past reads better. Maybe it's just me.
- Mat Twassel
Mat's Erotic Calendar at http://calendar.atEros.com
From: oosh
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:54:54 +0000 (UTC)
mmtwassel@aol.com (mat twassel) wrote in
news:20020709084049.23180.00002023@mb-ck.aol.com:
Is that right? I have my doubts. Consider:
At that time he was six.
At that time he had been six.
In past tense stories, past-perfect is useful for avoiding confusing,
but when confusion is not likely, I think past reads better. Maybe
it's just me.
In this example the pluperfect would indeed be wrong. That's because "he
was six" is imperfect: the perfect would be "he has been six". The perfect
signifies an action that is complete; the pluperfect, an action that was
complete.
O.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 10:20:34 -0500
On 09 Jul 2002 12:40:49 GMT, mmtwassel@aol.com (mat twassel) wrote:
Uther writes:
2 "At that time, her hair was unkempt and her gown was dirty
and bedraggled."
The story-present is told in past tense. So the story-past
should be told in past-perfect tense.
"At that time, her hair had been unkempt and her gown dirty
and bedraggled."
Is that right? I have my doubts. Consider:
At that time he was six.
At that time he had been six.
In past tense stories, past-perfect is useful for avoiding confusing, but when
confusion is not likely, I think past reads better. Maybe it's just me.
If it follows on to something like: "Now, she was made up like a
model in a fashion show," you need to use past-perfect to make the
time difference immediately clear.
Otherwise, while it is technically better to use past-perfect, it is
sometimes just as easy to read and understand simple-past for
story-past.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/
For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
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From: dennyw
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 12:15:42 -0700
On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:18:45 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> held forth, saying:
splort!
kitten!
KEYBOARD!
I haven't the time to look for stuff to improve. I'm too busy holding my sides.
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it." - G.B. Shaw
From: Bradley Stoke
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: 2 Jul 2002 11:00:11 -0700
Jim
I guess I've got to take the story as it's meant, which is as humour that somehow works around "Fish Tank" and "Desdemona" themes. And on that level it's quite funny, although a little unsubtle. But then Laurel & Hardy are unsubtle. And so are Beavis & Butthead,
I like all the references to things in (I guess) Dungeons & Dragons. My knowledge of all that kind of stuff is limited to the odd computer game (where I'm usually defeated on a very early level). I guess all these keys and mysteries and clues and all that kind of stuff come from there. When I'm not stuck in some room in Tomb Raider or being mashed by monsters in Quake or Half Life, I've sometimes found the odd red flask, crystal ball or green key. So it was a good evocation of all that nonsense. Though it is such absolute bollocks I wonder if it's even worth the effort of satirising. On the other hand, it's a wide target and the goalie's pretty inept.
I like the 'F' and 'D' theme. 'F' for 'Fish Tank' of course. But also 'flatulence', 'flirting', 'fashion' and 'female'. (And skirted around 'fuck'). Though I missed the 'Frob' in 'Frobozz' joke. And 'D'. Good old 'Desdmona'. But not so many rude or cheeky words begin with 'D'. 'Damsel', 'diverting', 'drizzle' and 'disentangle' perhaps.
More of a problem is the language (criticism #1). It's a Bill & Ted like mix of cod Shakespeare and "Hey Dude. Where's my car?" I wasn't sure how excellent it was. No way was it that awesome. But I guess it may well be a satire on the sort of person who plays the sort of computer games or RPG that this is based on. You can imagine some acne-ridden Californian boy (always Californian!) in his poster-strewn bedroom, hunched over a pizza- and coke-stained keyboard saying "Like Dude", "Sweet!", "How Gay!" or whatever, with some weak and ineffectual rock music from the likes of Limp BizKit or Marilyn Manson banging on tediously in the background. Yeah. Good image! But I didn't like it.
My other criticism is the main protagonist. Perhaps when all the women you see are enormous breasted avatars or downloaded videos of similarly improbable bodies pumping up and down like an oscillator, then you would be a bit lost for words if you met a glorious princess (even one with similarly impoverished language skills to your own and not at all loath to jump into bed with you as soon as the final curtain comes down). Again, it may be a joke on the world of gamers, dudes and the socially inept, but it grated with me.
All in all, a great effort. And I'm sure Desdmona is enjoying every moment of it. Especially the 'puowpsep' bit. Which in my opinion is the crown jewel of the entire short story.
Bradley Stoke
For More : http://www.asstr.org/~Bradley_Stoke
(mirror: http://www.bradley-stoke.barrysworld.net)
From: Kelli Halliburton
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 18:04:20 GMT
"Bradley Stoke" <bradley_stoke@hushmail.com> wrote in message news:aaacc8d6.0207021000.73f0f6c6@posting.google.com ...
I was thinking that "euowpsap" looks a little more correct. (Turn your monitor over to verify that the end of this sentence is umop ap!sdn. g)
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 18:59:01 -0600
On 2 Jul 2002 11:00:11 -0700, bradley_stoke@hushmail.com (Bradley Stoke) wrote:
It is "Zork." One of the classic games, goes back over 20 years to its original form (much taken from one called simply "Adventure"). As the game is all text, it is different from the highly visual games of the 90s. But it is worth playing anyway, because the imagery comes from imagination. Just like in written stories vs. movies.
The language of the story is much like that from the original game (and in parts, as mentioned, is exactly from it).
Like any satirical or farcial sorts of comedy, if you don't know the original it can be harder maybe to appreciate the humor? I can't say, as I kind of grew up on this sort of thing.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 17:00:58 -0600
On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:18:45 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
Oh, this is hard not to repeat on. As a Zork fan, I can't help but appreciate the humor. It seems just about perfect a take on the whole thing, pushing things into a bit of innuendo (but not much more than some of the series and other fantasy RPG games) nicely.
As such, a kind of farce (but not much, because the game really was a lot like this story, as you know), it isn't fair to look at it like a more general sort of fiction. It isn't even quite a "fanfic" story. Since it does the whole story-adventure w/humor feel so well, I can't think of much else to say about it. Other than ROFL ;-))
As for improvements, there isn't much to do other than cleaning up.
A nice sort of ending. But I think that the he/she thing should be like "he shouted ... er, make that she shouted, as he, er, she danced off out of sight."
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Souvie
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 05:37:45 GMT
On Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:18:45 -0400, "Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
Positive: Finding a unique way to work in the "fish tank" and "Desdmona" elements. Very inventive.
Positive: Pretty much grammar and punctuation free, as far as I saw.
Improvement: I've never played the game Zork, so I was a bit lost as to the room descriptions, and the other elements from the game. I had the urge to skim over them, rather than read them, but I refrained ...barely.
From: Always Horny
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 08:27:51 +0200
Very cute story.
The medieval words are pretty tough for a non-native speaker, though. One who doesn't know zork, to boot.
Not much in the way of suggestions for improvement. Oh yes: "She coaxed", I don't like too much. Could be me though. And maybe the last sentence about Flagpole should be by him, not by her. (somehow it's less ladylike than my idea of her. LOL)
AH
A_H_01 at hotmail. com
From: base212assm
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 12:07:12 GMT
Souvie wrote:
Personally, I like grammar and punctuation. Writng a story "free" of both is difficult to read. 8^)
From: dennyw
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 14:24:57 -0700
On Wed, 03 Jul 2002 12:07:12 GMT, base212assm <base212assmENDSPAM@yahoo.com> held forth, saying:
Beat me to it. <g>
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it." - G.B. Shaw
From: PleaseCain
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: 04 Jul 2002 02:02:30 GMT
There is a lot I like here, especially all the comedy bits. His interior monologue as he attempts conversation with her. The embedded lizard's head. The repartee was my favorite aspect of the story, witty and crisp. I also like the shtick about rummaging through his pockets to find objects and stray animals. You have a good imagination.
What ruined it for me were all the inside jokes and references, obviously relating to the game Zork II. Maybe I didn't read carefully enough either, but why the need to find certain stones? Why is it important that her sandals remained dry? And why are the guy and girl hanging out together in the first place? All loose ends.
Further, the Wizard is a vague character, especially when he turns out to be Desdmona. You might flesh him out a bit more, and plant some earlier seed that he has wacky crossdressing proclivities. As it is, his role is too disjointed to be interesting: he pops up and establishes a mystery by uttering one word, and then he reappears at the end to solve his own mystery.
That said, I will definitely read more of your writing, because I'm convinced you can set up a pretty lively story.
Cain
From: Ray
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 10:02:00 -0400
I've waited long enough I have to 'piggy-back' to post my response:
First, let me mention your game 'recommendation' - I do agree that the Zork trilogy was an excellent play. I have played most of the infocom games at one time or another. You should have, however, included mention of the fact that Zork and the other Infocom games of the time were 'text-only' adventures, with only minimal/if any graphics. Playing these games required thought, puzzle solving and an ability to 'type' rather than simply moving a joystcik and reacting to what is on the screen.
As I've said above, I have played most of the Infocom text RPG's and have three of the five 'collection' sets they recently released. Like Jeff, I immediately recognized the wit and style of the game, though you did miss one bet from those old games.
All movement in those games was based on compass directions: North, South, East, West, North West, South East, etc. but that's just the the semi-purist, semi-silly side of me. Also, rather than the jacket, wasn't the carry-all a 'bottomless pocket' in the early games? The Jacket came later - after the first trilogy. Of course, it can be more fun looking for things in a jacket, especially if 'she' helps <g>
I enjoyed the 'feel' of the language from the game and could appreciate the limitation on the Wizard of Froboz and his spells. (Being limited to only using spells beginning with the letter "F" - the fact that Fish Tank also begins with F being a rather 'neat' coincidence.)
I found the revisitation with the odd humor and memories of the strange requirements of the game in solving problems refreshing.
The one basic improvement I'd suggest is an echo of other's comments. The read would be easier for most with punctuation included. Beyond that .... the Princess could be a bit more amorous - hardly able to keep her hands from her nervous 'adventurer/heroe'. <g>
Pardon me, I think I'm going to fire up my old 486 laptop and dig out my copy of Enchanter for a while. <g>
Ray
Now I go to culture classes every night .... I'm a devotee and connoisseur of Black Velveteen Art .... I have a painting of Rambo that glows in the dark .
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: 04 Jul 2002 14:32:32 GMT
I'm not familiar with Zork, although I have played a few of those text adventure games - some of them on a VIC20. Brings back memories good and bad. Anyway, I was able to read the story with ease, and I'm easily confused, so I think that shows you have real writing skill. I enjoyed the light tone. I got the sense of the banter and it was fun even if I felt I was missing references here and there.
My major disappointment to the story: it didn't quite build to anything. I didn't feel a lot of tension, and the eventual resolution was a bit of a let-down. Maybe that just means I missed the essential key to the piece or the puzzle. Maybe it fits the nature of these games. What I wanted was to be so swept up in the story that I lost sight of everything else. That threatened to happen, but it never quite did. The characters, fun though they were, never fully materialized. Maybe I'm asking too much.
- Mat Twassel
Mat's Erotic Calendar at http://calendar.atEros.com
From: Alexis Siefert
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: 05 Jul 2002 05:17:48 GMT
First, let me say that I really did enjoy this one. It was a great laugh. As far as the FT anniversary "requirements" went, I think you did a wonderful job of making them part of the story. They don't stand out as being contrived or awkward (no small task).
Now, I don't understand Zork. It's a fiction that I'm not familiar with, so I assume that there are a lot of 'in' jokes that I'm missing. Despite that, you wrote it well enough to give me a good feel for the characters. Your hero has an "aw shucks" quality that makes him endearing. But, it's a bit overdone. For instance - you use "gosh" three times. Twice in internal dialogue. Once is enough, three times comes across as contrived.
My other comments are a bit nitpicky. It's "Damn it" (not Damnit). I don't know if it's an American thing, but "chocolated ants" doesn't sit right to me. Chocolate ants (ants made of chocolate), or chocolate-covered ants (real ants dipped in chocolate).
"Side saddle, of course" - why "of course"? If it goes without saying that she's riding side saddle because in this fiction no woman (or this woman) would ever ride not side saddle, then leave out the parenthetical reference completely. If it's special or unique that she'd be riding side saddle, then leave out the 'of course.'
that this is the fiftieth anniversary of his tenure as a wizard - awkward, simplify. "…this is his fiftieth year as a wizard, and he…"
There. Enough nitpicking.
Very funny story. The "f" spells are clever, and the jacket is a riot (I'm wondering if, perhaps, he has my car keys in there somewhere).
Thanks for the story!
Alexis.
ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/Alexis_S/ http://www.asstr.org/~Alexis_S/ And, of course, The Web's Best Illustrated Adult Fiction is at http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 00:40:38 -0600
On 04 Jul 2002 02:02:30 GMT, pleasecain@aol.com (PleaseCain) wrote:
You know the whole problem with doing a parody/imitation of any sort, of course. The loose ends were inherent in the game. You always have more mysteries to contend with, uncertainties to deal with. Why has much less to do with things than figuring out what to do.
I think he'd kind of stuck being like that, if the story keeps true to its source.
Something not a parody might be easier to catch. Like fanfic, often those not into the source don't get much of the humor. Nor can you easily explain it to the uninitiated.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Desdmona
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 13:08:50 -0400
Jim~
I don't read, play or anything Zork. Bur darn it, now I want to. I loved this. I giggled through the entire thing. The "F's" were inspired. The adventurer's jacket just a hoot. Reminding me of my purse. And I loved the transgendered wizard. Maybe the wizard part could have had a better foundation, a little better transition, but still it was a gem.
Your sense of humor is terrific, poking through in every paragraph. I was won over by it. I do think there are parts that are bit overdone, and might make me groan on another read.
And I think you miss a perfect opportunity to have a sex scene in this.
And one thing else, was the jacket put back on? I thought he had already taken it off when it says: "I took the jacket off, and began to explore down the left sleeve."
I don't know how to thank you for adding to the Anniversary such a light-hearted and creative addition. It was great fun!
Desdmona
From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:16 GMT
Thanks to all those who had comments.
I attempted to post an "omnibus" reply, covering all comments, twice .. but I suspect that my server doesn't like big postings. So I'll post individual responses instead. (If the original posts show up, please excuse ... sheesh, Desdmona did say 'no repeats'! :-)
- Jim
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From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:17 GMT
===-denny- (curmudgeon) said, in part:
Assuming this is a positive response ... thanks, Denny. :-)
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From: dennyw
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 11:37:52 -0700
On Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:17 GMT, fjb@pathcom.com (Jim Butterfield) held forth, saying:
good assumption. Was laughing my fool head off.
(and being glad you didn't go into the maze of twisty little passages, all alike - but then, that's not Zork.)
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it." - G.B. Shaw
From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:19 GMT
Bradley Stoke didn't exactly follow the guidelines of "things to improve", but said, among other things:
Damn! I took out the custard-pie-in-the-face scene, and you still don't think it's subtle? Groan.
Darn! Missed that one!
The F-spell theme was from the original story. Another reason why I chose it.
The wizard's name was The Wizard of Frobozz. I haven't the foggiest idea what or where Frobozz is, either. Just kept it 'cause it was his name.
A specific example would be more useful. The story's protagonist isn't the brightest light in the marquee; I wouldn't want him to be too cool.
The socially inept will always be with us. I suspect many of us can identify with characters who say the wrong thing at the wrong time. Not me, of course (I say the right thing at the wrong time).
Thanks, Bradley.
- Jim
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From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:20 GMT
Kelli Halliburton commented:
I told the guy in Properties to give me a hand-printed sign on the pink Slip. I told him, hand-printed. If he'd done it right, the letter 'a' at the end of 'desdmona' would look like, well, a circle with a vertical line at the right. Upside down, it wouldn't look like much, but a little squinting would make it look like a poorly-formed 'b' or 'p' - I chose the latter.
But the guy has a new computer, and just HAD to do it in Times New Roman on his printer. Of course, that meant that you would see an upside-down 'a' resembling an 'e'. I'm gonna have a serious talk with him, Kelli; and I'll make sure that the story specifies hand-printed. Let him inkjet his way around THAT one.
Kelli, you've solved a problem that's been bugging me for years.
I always wondered why, when I move the mouse to the left, the screen pointer moves right, and there's a similar reversal of the up and down directions. What's more, it has puzzled me that the cord comes out of the bottom of my mouse, rather than the top.
Now that I've turned my monitor upside down, everything works right. :-)
Thanks, Kelli.
- Jim
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From: dennyw
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 11:39:00 -0700
On Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:20 GMT, fjb@pathcom.com (Jim Butterfield) held forth, saying:
The schwa
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it." - G.B. Shaw
From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:21 GMT
Jeff Zephyr has been to Zork, which pleases me and I suspect enhances his enjoyment of my tale. He said:
It seemed to me that this sort of thing would be ideal for readers of an all-text newsgroup. Some of us would rather see words than pictures. Imagination can be so much more graphic than a JPEG. And, as a bonus, the quality of writing is generally excellent in all the Infocom games.
Think we might be able to lure a few new Adventurers with this one, Jeff? As I keep saying, it's a free download.
===(More from Jeff later) ...
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From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:22 GMT
From: "Ray", who is the prime mover of the Fishtank Anniversary Tribute:
I had already put lots of preliminary stuff in square brackets at the start of the piece. I was reluctant to stretch it out any more. It would be tempting to keep going with ... [All characters in this story are fictitious; any resemblance between them and the real Desdmona are almost purely coincidental] ... [No baby sea monsters were harmed during the writing of this story; the sea monster was played by a professional under the supervision of the SPCSM] ... and so on. But I have wonderful self-restraint, particularly when picking up the check at a restaurant, so I left it as is.
It seemed to me that compass points might encumber the story. The geography was tiny enough that, in this case, nobody would need to draw a map. Ummm .. and I think that ENTER would get you through that first door, leaving only two further movements in the story (to the workbench where the west direction is mentioned, and then on to the fishtank).
As far as I could see, there was no description as to how the player carried all that stuff. The jacket added a little more schtick to the story.
By the way: You and Jeff left that jacket in pretty ratty condition after you'd been Zorking. The lining was ripped in a couple of places, and some of the stuffing was coming out. And which one of you left a polka-dot condom in one of the pockets?
I asked for a fresh jacket, but was told, no, not with my budget, I'd just have to make do with the one that was there. :-)
Yes, it's part of why I chose that Zork environment.
Examples would be useful. I'm not sure what you mean.
In your dreams, Ray. :-) So you couldn't make progress with her when you played Zork? And now you want me to soften her up, huh? I asked the Princess about your visit, but she just smiled. I did notice, though, that right after I asked, she lifted her hand to touch her hair. Do you think that means anything?
:-)
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From: Ray
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:30:05 -0400
"Jim Butterfield" <fjb@pathcom.com> wrote in message news:3d29bbc7.78984454@news.pathcom.com ...
Well, that explains the recent bill I got received from the FroBozz Fancy Fish Fry and Eatery ...
Hey, when they only have 'one' jacket to begin with and are too cheap to replace it .... I hope it was at least 'clean' - I did pay the standard post adventure dry cleaning fee they demand in the normal Zork adventurers contract. As for the condom ... I offered the Princess a choice of five varieties ... the Polka-Dot, Ribbed, Studded, Extra-Lubed and Glow-in-the-Dark ... I didn't know she stuck it into that pocket when we were done.
As I already indicated ... the Cheap Bas***** only have 'one' jacket in their inventory to start with. You think it's bad now ... wait until it's used by another dozen or so adventurers. :^}
She's remembering the last session .... we used the Wizards workbench and she got her hair stuck in some spilled goop near the tables edge .... She was still trying to get unstuck when I left .... her language was quite colorful when I offered to 'trim' her long locks to free her. :^}
Did she use that Vic Tanny membership I left her, or was her ass still cottage cheese?
Ray
From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:24 GMT
Back to Jeff Zephyr for a moment:
I hoped some readers would get a nostalgia-kick out of it. Glad you enjoyed it.
Excellent! He/she is never a good phrase, but sometimes the alternatives turn out to be clumsy. In this case, however, we EXPECT the narrator to be a little clumsy with words ... your suggestion is accepted verbatim.
One of my four cats would agree. The other three are, "Gimme the food, then leave me alone!"
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From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:30 GMT
===Souvie contributed:
Back in the 1940s and 50s, some businesses had an odd tradition, Souvie. Typists were required to make ONE error in business correspondence, so that the signer could hand-correct the error, thus supposedly giving the letter a personal touch. (Honest!)
Do you think maybe it would be a good idea for me to slip in a single mispelling, to keep readers on their toes? :-)
I tried my best to make the story complete in itself, without calling on the reader to know the "inside scoop". The room descriptions are taken verbatim from the game.
I trust that most people spotted that the main thrust of the story was the interaction between characters; that's something that wasn't in the original Zork. Hope the setting didn't obstruct in any way.
Thanks for your comments, Souvie.
- Jim
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From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:42 GMT
==="Always Horny" had these words:
Most of the words that puzzled you are likely 'nonsense' words, coined to give the story an other-worldly feeling. (Words like 'Frobozz' or 'Frobnoid'.) Readers well-versed in English would know right away that they had no meaning. In your case, though, I suspect that you imagined that they were real, obscure, words. Sorry you were misled.
Not sure. Would you prefer, "she said in a coaxing voice" .. ?
Hmmm. And Ray wants her more aggressive. Sigh. The guy's a klutz, shy and inept at dealing with females. The Princess has to take the initiative or she'll NEVER get anything going, IMO ... :-)
- Jim
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From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:59 GMT
PleaseCain said:
"Ruined it"? Hope you didn't really mean a word that strong. "Spoiled it", perhaps, or "Took the edge off"? That's part of the hazard of writing an episode to fit within a previously-defined environment.
I don't know if it will help for me to tell you this, but persons playing the original Zork don't know what's going on, either. The game has no stated objective, and the player only develops the situation by wandering around and finding interesting things to do.
At the part of the game I adapted, the player is undoubtedly wondering why the hell he's carrying around a couple of coloured spheres. He will only figure it out when he sees, for the first time, the three stands with corresponding colours. At that point, a new challenge arises: where is the missing sphere? (In that respect, my story is a spoiler, since I reveal its location).
Why is it important that her sandals remained dry? A character contrast; the Princess could walk through a carwash without getting a hair out of place; the narrator couldn't drink a cup of coffee without spilling half of it over himself. Her sandals are dry, his boots are filled with water. She trips lightly back to the workshop; he sloshes his way there.
Why are the guy and girl hanging out together in the first place? There's a reference early in the story. Before my action started, he had somehow saved her from captivity. She indicates that she has reappeared to see if she can be of any help. Then again, perhaps she has other motives.
The story had an earlier reference to the Wizard being fey, and to his "Facial" and "Fashion" spells. These might be seen as a little foreshadowing. In the original Zork, the Wizard plays a minor nuisance role; I didn't want to take him too far out of that character.
As you know, he is discussed at the start of the story. I think we have to recognize that we're not into heavy drama here. Indeed, the only mysteries, such as they are, would be: what does 'desdmona' signify within this story; and where is the missing crystal sphere? Neither of these build to an appreciable climax, so I think we'll have to recognize the story as a piece of fluff; that's the way I intended it.
Kind words, Cain. It may be a while, since the Muse doesn't strike me very often (but she has a mean left hook when she does).
- Jim
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From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:40:25 GMT
Jeff leaped to my defence with:
(About the Wizard's character .. )
Right, Jeff. I tried to make it readable to those who had not met Zork, without seriously compromising the splendid flow of the original game.
- Jim
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From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:41:01 GMT
Desdmona wrapped things up with:
Sometimes, humour can be pitched too subtly, so that some readers don't get it. Well, that's one problem I don't have. I fretted that my first draft was too mild, and spent some time beefing up the comedy theme. Ever get that fear that someone will read the whole thing with a sombre face, and never realize it's supposed to be funny?
Well, it's implied. I fear I might not handle the scene well, or (worse) start to lose the comedy aspect. Of course, sex can be funny (all my female friends scream with laughter when I disrobe), and it might have been possible to handle it in a light manner.
And I didn't want to follow the couple into the wizard's quarters. As it happens, the place is heavily stocked with leather, chains, whips and other paraphernalia, and it might have spoiled your image of the Princess if I'd taken you there.
I should have followed that up more fully. In fact, his wristwatch got tangled in the left sleeve lining, and the jacket more or less trailed along behind him for the rest of the story. As a result, our hero looked something like a contortionist when searching for the other items in the jacket. The Princess found this quite interesting, since she'd been reading the Karma Sutra for the last month or so.
It's intended as a tribute to you, Desdmona, for your excellent work in organizing the fishtank. I rarely do stories or feedback, but when Ray said, "Let's mark the anniversary!" I just couldn't resist.
Enjoy.
- Jim
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From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:58:40 GMT
mat twassel contributed:
As noted earlier, that's right. The two mystery themes were easily solved, and it didn't build to any sort of climax.
Maybe I'm giving too little. It's hard to say, Mat. I spent much of my time punching up the humour, rather than reinforcing the plot line. But I'm not strong on plots in any case.
Still, I wanted to make a contribution to recognize Desdmona's work with the Fishtank. And it seems to work as a piece of fluff.
- Jim
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From: Uther Pendragon
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: 8 Jul 2002 13:03:50 -0600
Sorry for the lateness of these. OTOH, I think that you will believe that I have been busy lately.
"Desdmona" <me@desdmona.com> wrote:
1 Despite the background, I could follow the story without any previous acquaintance with the game of Zork.
2 We get good pictures of the personalities of the three characters without stopping for an exposition.
Quibbles only,
1 I don't like: "There were rustling noises behind me. I turned to see the beautiful young woman approach."
In the first place, you don't see THE woman the first time she is mentioned in the story. In the second place, something is askew with this order.
I'd prefer something similar to: "When I turned at a rustling noise behind me, I recognized the beautiful young woman.
2 "At that time, her hair was unkempt and her gown was dirty and bedraggled."
The story-present is told in past tense. So the story-past should be told in past-perfect tense. "At that time, her hair had been unkempt and her gown dirty and bedraggled." Or maybe:
"At that time, she had had unkempt hair and had worn a dirty, bedraggled, gown."
Uther Pendragon FAQs http://www.nyx.net/~anon584c anon584c@nyx.net fiqshn http://www.asstr.org/~Uther_Pendragon
From: Conjugate
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 20:15:53 -0400
<dennyw@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.invalid> wrote in message news:t1njiukfafi8a0t9cemnue78ndn9hasdlr@4ax.com ...
Gesundheit! Still not over that cold yet? Wow.
Conjugate
who thinks a cold is nothing to sneeze at.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 21:54:56 -0600
On Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:21 GMT, fjb@pathcom.com (Jim Butterfield) wrote:
I would think so. I'm not sure that I'd easily go back to that sort of game. There is something about the sensual interaction of modern game graphics, some games are just pretty and fun to experience regardless of gameplay.
But I still read books. And stories. So maybe, it would be fun to visit more gaming worlds which are all text. Some MUDs are like that, a kind of online multiplayer text adventure.
You never know. If not the originals, which being text still look as good as ever, not really dated in the graphics like some older games, some of the later ones.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 21:57:44 -0600
On Mon, 08 Jul 2002 16:39:24 GMT, fjb@pathcom.com (Jim Butterfield) wrote:
It was simply fun. Sometimes it is nice to read a story like that. Even if there was more of a sex scene, I think that the fun aspect would tend to dominate the enjoyment.
Thanks. Most of it was pretty nice in the dialog, but that one seemed out of place.
Well, my sister's cat is sort of like that. But I've tended to pick out the cats who crawl or jump or claw :-) their way onto your lap, and insist on being petted often.
Sometimes, the petting is in trade for food. But once fed, they seem to want a nice comfy petting spot.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Tesseract
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: 8 Jul 2002 22:26:00 -0700
fjb@pathcom.com (Jim Butterfield) wrote in message news:<3d29bcdb.79260590@news.pathcom.com> ...
RAH mentioned in "Stranger In A Strange Land" that he leaves the errors in so that the editors can piss in it and make it their own (or words to that effect).
Tesseract
From: dennyw
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 01:38:56 -0700
On 8 Jul 2002 22:26:00 -0700, hypertesseract@hotmail.com (Tesseract) held forth, saying:
Well, actually, Jubal mentioned that - but I think this was a case of 'auctorial voice' for once. :)
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it." - G.B. Shaw
From: Kelli Halliburton
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 01:28:14 GMT
<dennyw@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.invalid> wrote in message news:r78liu4sjslhp6t8n2g8rjv2cd36l6f0of@4ax.com ...
Hmm. It seems to me that there was a 'crusty old coot' in quite a few of RAH's books. Jubal just happened to be closer to the mark than most, since he was an author.
From: Tesseract
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: 10 Jul 2002 19:11:30 -0700
"Kelli Halliburton" <kelli217@crosswinds.not> wrote in message news:<O4MW8.585$d_1.37631144@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com> ...
Crusty, old coot; not the lead character but more than a walk-on; offers advice, often unasked for; does not suffer fools gladly; has very libertarian views.
Tesseract
From: Tesseract
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: 9 Jul 2002 19:26:47 -0700
dennyw@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.invalid wrote in message news:<r78liu4sjslhp6t8n2g8rjv2cd36l6f0of@4ax.com> ...
I've identified a character in most, if not all, of his adult stories that I'm sure was himself, and was meant to be himself. Here it was Jubal; in his last book was the father (I don't have the name handy).
Tesseract
From: dennyw
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 00:46:41 -0700
On 9 Jul 2002 19:26:47 -0700, hypertesseract@hotmail.com (Tesseract) held forth, saying:
This isn't really the forum for this discussion - but you'd get some major argument if you made that statement in alt.fan.heinlein. (the father was Ira Johnson, btw - assuming you mean Maureen's dad - Lazarus's grandfather)
Oh - one of the people in afh who'd disagree with you posts under the nym of "Astyanax12" - she's more widely known as Ginny Heinlein. :)
-denny- (curmudgeon)
"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it." - G.B. Shaw
From: Kelli Halliburton
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 23:35:00 GMT
<dennyw@TANSTAAFL.zipcon.net.invalid> wrote in message news:hdpniu000lv914e7hiv4pk0iip2d98vmu5@4ax.com ...
Se,, this is why when I said the same thing, I simply said "many," rather than "most" or "all." There are indeed quite a few of his books in which there is no analog to RAH himself.
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: 09 Jul 2002 12:40:49 GMT
Uther writes:
Is that right? I have my doubts. Consider:
At that time he was six.
At that time he had been six.
In past tense stories, past-perfect is useful for avoiding confusing, but when confusion is not likely, I think past reads better. Maybe it's just me.
- Mat Twassel
Mat's Erotic Calendar at http://calendar.atEros.com
From: oosh
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 14:54:54 +0000 (UTC)
mmtwassel@aol.com (mat twassel) wrote in news:20020709084049.23180.00002023@mb-ck.aol.com:
In this example the pluperfect would indeed be wrong. That's because "he was six" is imperfect: the perfect would be "he has been six". The perfect signifies an action that is complete; the pluperfect, an action that was complete.
O.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Fish Tank (Me and the Wizard and the Princess), by Jim Butterfield
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 10:20:34 -0500
On 09 Jul 2002 12:40:49 GMT, mmtwassel@aol.com (mat twassel) wrote:
If it follows on to something like: "Now, she was made up like a model in a fashion show," you need to use past-perfect to make the time difference immediately clear.
Otherwise, while it is technically better to use past-perfect, it is sometimes just as easy to read and understand simple-past for story-past.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
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